No Zkt Mod causing "searching for sat" signal..

[skinerd]

Never heard it before either, all 222/223's I have seen are kicking.....

All the nozkt mod does is cause the zkt check results to be jumped over and/or ignored, that's it....

[skinerd]

Splitter.........hate that word......sat signals are not the same as TV or cable signals, that's exactly why they sell multiswitches..that is the correct thing to use......

[hughnohoo]

The only that nozkt is going to mess up a rcvr is when someone doesnt know what the heck they are doing ! Can you say "it doesn't work now ?"
Wish I had a dollar for every dead rcvr lately !

[cancom]

The only that nozkt is going to mess up a rcvr is when someone doesnt know what the heck they are doing ! Can you say "it doesn't work now ?"
Wish I had a dollar for every dead rcvr lately !


Yes, a lot of would-be-modders have left a heaping pile of dead IRDs out there. Many blame it on the IRD not having the transponders in the 1st place. Some say it was an unrelated incident and it just died...hogwash! :asshole2:s

Remove the BFR to ground within 3 seconds of plugging in the IRD and this will not happen!

cancom

[octoped]

Check your profile(s) for locked out channels.

>> o <<

[hughnohoo]

If the channels are not locked out, try a different script or bin.

[cancom]

I have a Sony B55 and get the same 'searching for sat" message on only about 15 channels. The 100 series and the upper 500's come in but the 500 to 550 are all lost. Any suggestions?


This is exactly what I'm talking about.... :BoomSmili Modders that don't READ instructions.

Remove the BFR to ground within 3 seconds or there is a good chance the receiver will have HARDWARE DAMAGE.

Keyboard, check the even and odd transponders for signal strength. If only the even or odds show up then your Modder has screwed your IRD.

[m5runner]

give us more info on how sending BFR to ground for too long will damage your IRD and what components. you are just saying something but no reasoning behind it. talk to us

[skinerd]

m5runner said........give us more info on how sending BFR to ground for too long will damage your IRD and what components. you are just saying something but no reasoning behind it. talk to us.............

I agree, I leave BFR hooked up for the entire process, have modded about 150 of the 420/440/480's and never a problem......

[cancom]

Hi guys

I have no evidence other than observation....haven't had time to investigate it further yet. I can only state that it hasn't happened since my buds and I [we all have the same JTAG] have started removing the jumper after powering up.

I doubt it is the circuitry of the Engineer Greg's JTAG [everyone seems to have used the same basic design] but the connections. It utilizes the power from the computer for the 74HCT244. The grounds are common and while the BFR is connected to GND the resistor U26102 gets unusually extremely hot. This stops when the jumper is removed. That was good enough for me.

You don't need to know Newton's law to get out of the way of a falling apple? :)

cancom

[bangbus]

The resistor at the BFR point is a 10K tied to the 3.3V line. With this grounded continuosly the power disspated is approx 1 milliwatt which is very low and certainly would not generate any heat. Let's not create any urban legends about grounding BFR. This can be grounded indefinitely when testing. If you are having overheating problems check your wiring. I use an external 5v power supply for my jtag so that any miswiring etc won't damage the ird or cause any overloading on the 5V ird power.

[skinerd]

Following ohms law E=IR, therefore I=E/R , so I (current) = 3.3/10000, or 0.33 miliamps, not much draw there, huh..........

[cancom]

The resistor at the BFR point is a 10K tied to the 3.3V line. With this grounded continuosly the power disspated is approx 1 milliwatt which is very low and certainly would not generate any heat. Let's not create any urban legends about grounding BFR. This can be grounded indefinitely when testing. If you are having overheating problems check your wiring. I use an external 5v power supply for my jtag so that any miswiring etc won't damage the ird or cause any overloading on the 5V ird power.

Hi bangbus

You state the 10K resistor beside the BFR connection is the ONLY component effected by the BFR to GRND connection.

Fantastic!!!! You stand in the puddle, hold your finger in the light socket and I'll push this here X10 button. :cool: After all, they only have a common ground.

cancom

[skinerd]

that 10k resistor pulls BFR up to 3.3v for nornal operation grounding it drops BFR to 0v.
the resistor limits the current to a very low level so that grounding will not short anything out.
I have seen a couple receivers stuck in boot to link mode, with damage to the 5508 processor, I don't think it was caused by leaving BFR grounded too long, as one was never modded.....

[bangbus]

I agree skinerd . In addition the processor can be damaged by electrostatic discharge. Maybe this happens sometime when BFR is probed and you don't have a wrist ground strap on and the ird is not plugged in. This failure mode could cause the processor bfr input to fail shorted to ground. The processor may still be operational being stuck in boot to link mode. This line on the processor is an input line and would contribute very little current to the grounded BFR. Also if by accident an output line is grounded this could cause to any chip to go into failure mode and overheat and destroy itself. The schematic shows the only connection to the bfr is the 10k pullup. Standard practice when working with electronic circuits is to wear a grounded wrist strap.

[indal_98]

I have to agree with Skinerd....I have done a lot of noZKT mod on different IRDs since the engineer Greg era. I have done 102,212,303,403,505,420,440,480,430, 523...etc.
On 8-bit IRDs I used M27C4001, 16-bit IRDs I used M27C160, a few with M27C801, all new IRDs are , of course, in-line flashable TSOP. And I have never came across one with searching for sat signal afterwards. I checked the IRDs before I mod them so I know it's not the mod/firmware that's causing the searching sat error (not that I ever came across one). Most of the problems I've seen from other mod's (from other testers) are causing by static, pushing down too hard on header pins causing other components around to be "loose"....components falling off when trying to remove through-hole ROMs...I leave the BFR grounded throughout the entire process, never a problem. I would check the surrounding area when the connections are made (header pins, jumpers, etc...).

[m5runner]

just as i thought..another wanna be guru. take it from me, soldering bfr to ground won't damage anything. i never had a SFSS after "leaving BFR to ground on for too long". honestly, how long does it take to "short" something out on the signal circuit??? i have had BFR to ground connected for 30 minutes once, maybe even more and IRD works perfectly. i know who the real modders are here.


PS. GO WOLVES

M5

[m5runner]

you need to reset your IRD when you get a trap/DCU error. not sure how to reset a dishnet IRD but that's how you get rid of the error. after you reset, you can continue or start over the process.


M5

[coolwind]

Question Fellows
Can the 222 & 223 be Modded with out the flash chips ???
TKS DR Coolwind

[m5runner]

they can be but very missionable. i wouldn't waste the time. mounting the flash chip alone can be quite eventful. i wouldn't waste my time.

M5.

[skinerd]

Question Fellows
Can the 222 & 223 be Modded with out the flash chips ???
TKS DR Coolwind

I would like to try and install a flash chip in a 221/222/223, but I can 't find a flash chip for a reasonable price,,,,,,,

[m5runner]

10 bucks on www.newark.com. i say its still not worth it. just my .02

[skinerd]

10 bucks on www.newark.com. i say its still not worth it. just my .02

Hey m5,
I have ben told that they were also available at digikey, however I am unable to find them at either digikey or newark or mouser, or anyplace for that matter.
Do you have a newark part number you could share?? I get frustrated when looking and can't find stuff others say are there......

Thanks.....

[skinerd]

425-1841-ND is the part number. I think they are $30 on digikey.

That is not a newark part number, an advanced search there turned up, nothing......

[octoped]

Skinerd, he said it was a Digikey....

Quote
425-1841-ND is the part number. I think they are $30 on digikey.

>> o <<

[skinerd]

Ok, that is a digikey part number, waaaay too expensive.....

[cancom]

Ok, that is a digikey part number, waaaay too expensive.....

Hi skinerd

Been there, done that.
Yes, much too expensive to play with.
I just peeled one off a scrap 420RE.


i know who the real modders are here.
m5runner

Obviously you've been misinformed!
I've quite probably performed more mods than anyone here.
I have several hundred receivers at any given time.....need some pics as proof?
Ignorant rhetorical remarks don't help anything here!
What the F*&k seems to be your problem kid?

The question was, why are there so many receivers that end up seaching for sat after being modded.
I suggested a theory that may or may not hold water. It is here for discussion. It takes no more effort to remove the BFR to GRND after powering the IRD. If this actually saves a few receivers, wouldn't that be a good thing?

cancom

[cancom]

skinerd

Did you PM this guy?
He may also have what you need?

http://www.dssftp.com/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=10937

cancom

[m5runner]

skinerd mouser has them but right now they only have M28 chips. i am sure if you call them you can ask when they will have intel ones in stock. here is the link:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&handler=search.listcategory&Ntt=*e28f320*&terms=e28f320&Dk=1&D=*e28f320*&N=0&crc=true

[m5runner]

several hundred receivers and you still can't give me a valid explanation of how BFR to ground affects the signal circuit??....so who is the kid here? its like telling me you have a thousand posts here so that would mean you know what you are doing. obviously that's not the case. if you think i am misinformed then post the correct answer and stop being a monday morning quarterback "kid"


M5

[rubberman]

I have a 420re thats showing "searching for signal" messgae. But i did the nozkt mod back in August and it worked fine last night. BUT i have the cableTV and satellite on 1 line using diplexors into the house and then splitting them back out at each TV. Ill have to do some investigating....

[m5runner]

diplexor might be your prob. i have seen some AB diplexors at rat shack. maybe you can get one of those so that the inputs don't cross each other or you can get an RF modulator to control everything.


M5

[loserbaby]

I had some problems hitting the sat before, I am still unable to explain it... but the irds (mod) that I once also thought might to be to blame were also the same IRD's that where tested on a fixed signal and then had trouble and found signal and are up and working today. I'm talking 3 of about 30 or so. I truly believe it was some slop in aiming since two of those times were buddies who had never aimed a dish, and one other was spotted with the compass inches from the dish, once he backed off, he was looking at a whole new solar system. I say learn to aim it! I did also have a problem myself, that's what started my crusade in a quest for answers, I had an absolute BAD, brand new from dave rg6 cable. Blaming the mod is BS.

[spirit2004]

Sony SAT w60
I have put over fifteen bins to flush the unit and it still goes 745.
Reloaded 3.5 image still same problem.
Cam should read 5556
It reads 8887
No 745 has worked in unit in the past.
Any ideas?
Thank you kindly
Prius

[loserbaby]

I see absolutely no benifit in modding less than a 420 IRD, the jtag, I use .99 radioshack resistor and junkyard printer cable variety....is the EASIEST AND CHEAPEST, also very reliable method, resoldering a flash chip is purely for sport and if they where free, I would still see no reason to ever go that route..........

[cancom]

several hundred receivers and you still can't give me a valid explanation of how BFR to ground affects the signal circuit??....so who is the kid here? its like telling me you have a thousand posts here so that would mean you know what you are doing. obviously that's not the case. if you think i am misinformed then post the correct answer and stop being a monday morning quarterback "kid"


M5

OK kid [sic], if I had the choice of dropping a rock on your head from 1 ft or 200 ft, I don't need to know Newton's Law of Gravity to know which one would make me happier!
I also don't need to know why removing the BFR/GRND saves some IRDs if my buds and I haven't had a problem since following this proceedure.

Get your facts straight!
I made no claim to thousands of posts....where did you see that?
I also didn't claim I had a "valid explaination", just that it works for me.
If I claimed to know everything, I'd just post the ASIC encryption solution!

You just shot your mouth off at the wrong guy!
Ever see "The Princess Bride"?.... "are you really that smart?"
Shall we see if your IQ is > than your shoe size? :rolleyes:

I double dog dare you to prove your intellect here on Mili's by solving a little puzzle. :p

I await your reply to my challenge. :flipa:

cancom

[cancom]

I don't mean to get into the middle of this, but I have done my share of 420s, and have always left the BFR to Ground on during the whole process. When I first started modding them, and I am not proud to admit this, but it took me over an hour to complete the mod. The whole time BFR was grounded. Now, time is down to 15 minutes top, and still haven't encountered any SFSS problems.

So lets say that you have done 100 mods, and 2 out of them ended up with the SFSS problem. I know I have done over 50, and have had zero with that problem. It just seems that the percentage, if the BFR to Ground is causing the problem, should be close to equal, but they are not in my case.

I will tell you how I do it, to clarify and further questions. First thing, I check to make sure the IRD powers up and works. Then, unplug, solder a wire from BFR to Ground, hook up Jtag, power up, and erase flash. Next, write no zkt bin, unplug, remove BFR, Hook up to TV, check for PCR20, unplug, remove Jtag, and then write protect.

Again, don't mean to get in the middle of things, just telling you all what I have experienced in all of the 420s I have done.


Hi 001438

Thank you. I can respect your efforts to keep this civil....I'm usually the guy intervening. Yes, I'm pretty sure I have it down to a science. I also always check the IRD for even/odd transponders, pic & sound before openning the can. This common problem could be related to the computer/JTAG and as you haven't had this problem it would be pretty hard to evaluate what fixes it.

I came here from Hitec and HUABC where I assisted on the forums for years.

M5 started this:
"just as i thought..another wanna be guru."
What the F*&K inspired this smart ass remark?
I don't need this bullshit from a snot nosed kid [says he's 19].

"take it from me, soldering bfr to ground won't damage anything."
This moron figures he is the "GURU"....I gave him an IQ challenge....lets see him put his reputation where his mouth is.

cancom

[m5runner]

don't let a 19 year old outdo you. until you can show me logic proof that BFR damages the LNB circuit, i will give you your path but until then shut your mouth and act right. let's say you had the IQ to be an engineer...why would you use your programming interface to short out something else???? come on guy, you don't have to PM me about this. give me some proof...no proof, STFU!!!


M5

[cancom]

don't let a 19 year old outdo you. until you can show me logic proof that BFR damages the LNB circuit, i will give you your path but until then shut your mouth and act right. let's say you had the IQ to be an engineer...why would you use your programming interface to short out something else???? come on guy, you don't have to PM me about this. give me some proof...no proof, STFU!!!

M5


Blah!...Blah!...Blah!
Just as I thought, ALL HOT AIR! :flipa:

Don't you want to show all these folks just what a Fargin "GURU" you are?

cancom

[m5runner]

i thought you were the guru here. explain to us why and how BFR ruins signal circuit. if u can't explain it just leave it alone. somehow u are the only person that killed their signal circuit with it. how many people are on this forum again? just let it go man....go drink a beer


M5

[cancom]

i thought you were the guru here. explain to us why and how BFR ruins signal circuit. if u can't explain it just leave it alone. somehow u are the only person that killed their signal circuit with it. how many people are on this forum again? just let it go man....go drink a beer


M5

It's common practice in England to ring a telephone by signaling extra
voltage across one side of the two wire circuit and ground (earth in
England). When the subscriber answers the phone, it switches to the two
wire circuit for the conversation. This method allows two parties on the
same line to be signalled without disturbing each other.

Anyway, an elderly lady with several pets called to say that her telephone
failed to ring when her friends called; and that on the few occasions when
it did ring her dog always barked first. The telephone repairman proceeded
to the scene, curious to see this psychic dog.

He climbed a nearby telephone pole, hooked in his test set, and dialed the
subscriber's house. The phone didn't ring. He tried again. The dog barked
loudly, followed by a ringing telephone.

Climbing down from the pole, the telephone repairman found:
1. A dog was tied to the telephone system's ground post via an iron
chain and collar.
2. The dog was receiving a 90 volt signalling current.
3. After several such jolts, the dog would start barking and
urinating on the ground.
4. The wet ground now completed the circuit and the phone would ring.

Some problems can be fixed by just pissing on them....not this one.

I double-dog dared you to take my challenge.
Do I have to call you chicken?

[rubberman]

I found out why i got Searching for Signal. The stupid cable man that buried my INternet line cut out all my satellite wires and took the diplexors. I had my sat lines coming into the plastic cable box on the house so i could diplexors and use the existing cable lines that ran into the house. I have no clue why the fat bastard did that. But i made sure it fixed it the way i had it.

[pablo88]

Hi all!!
Cancom, 5mrunners!! wow I am trying to learn more from you two!! So can this nozkt mod causing SFSS?? You both are great "GURU"! And damn I am learning a LOT from the master SKINERD!!!

ps. please be friend all of us, especially newbie like me will be greatfull to learn from you all!

[cancom]

I found out why i got Searching for Signal. The stupid cable man that buried my INternet line cut out all my satellite wires and took the diplexors. I had my sat lines coming into the plastic cable box on the house so i could diplexors and use the existing cable lines that ran into the house. I have no clue why the fat bastard did that. But i made sure it fixed it the way i had it.


Hi rubberman

Good to hear your SFSS problem was solved.

Diplexers are not intended to split/combine ["sat lines"] sat signals as there is no control over the transponders. A multiswitch is made to comine all. I also just don't trust that $5 diplexer to not screw up. Unless it is impossible, I'd run a line for cable and another for sat.....cable is cheap.

Yes, some cable guys figure that CATV box is theirs [some actually are owner by the cable co] and anything you put in it is fair game to be hacked and cut.....jerks.

Here is a great post by BudNC420
http://www.dssftp.com/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=1571

cancom

[cancom]

Hi all!!
Cancom, 5mrunners!! wow I am trying to learn more from you two!! So can this nozkt mod causing SFSS?? You both are great "GURU"! And damn I am learning a LOT from the master SKINERD!!!

ps. please be friend all of us, especially newbie like me will be greatfull to learn from you all!

Hi pablo88

I hope M5 and I haven't given you the wrong impression of how to duck while attempting to get a point accross.

There are a heap of dead IRDs out there that are SFSS from being modded. I have my theory and a few members have voiced opinions of, static, solder trails, bad scripts, pushing down too hard on header pins, components falling off, etc.

There is a definate problem here and the more input [theories] should eventually find a plausible answer by the process of elimination. M5 somehow seems to think I stated a fact when I only reported my observations.
Applied Theory:
Theory is when you know how it works but it still doesn't.
Practice is when it works but you don't know why.
At my house, theory and practice are one and the same: nothing works and no one knows why! :)

cancom