dumb newbie questions

[chuckb01]

Greetings everyone,
I'm all through with dave so I'm looking into charlie. I have a few maybe dumb sounding questions to start with. Any intelligent answers would be greatly appreciated. First of all I'm a retired elec. tech and just love doing this kind of stuff.
I have no equipment what so ever ( except a dtv dish and 5 dtv receivers). What exactly does free to air mean? I have seen Blackbird receivers at a good price and some very high priced. Is there a difference? I get the impression that you just plug a blackbird in and go. But probably not? Do they need to be modified or parts changed or what? What would be the best receiver to buy? And any required equipment? Any idea who has the best prices. And I'm in the US if that matters. I used to advertise and buy used dtv receivers and complete setups for $25.00 and in most cases, people were happy to get rid of them. Can I do this with DN? Are there particular ones to look for, and access cards? I would probably start out buying a new ird. Would the Blackbird be a good choice. Any idea how long this will last or can what happened to dave happen here? Just a short answer. That question I'm sure is a discussion in itself. What is the basic GOOD equipment I would need? And I suppose there are a lot of useless gimmicks out there. Where is a good place to get all the update programs (free if possble)? I realize this site offers a lot of stuff but it's nice to shop around. Is there a list available of who not to deal with? dave was full of scammers. Send your money to Canada and never see nothing. Guess that's enough for now. Thankyou much.

[BirdieMod]

Welcome Chuck. You have about the best post I have ever seen asking about getting into echostar testing.

There is a million ways to test, I myself find the closest to the " real" system is the best with the least ecm's.

[j8.]

hi chuck looks like u may have some reading to do but i think u know always reading with this stuff lol id start by reading a few newbie guides may answer alot of your questions there is alot of newbie guides out there and things like that to help get stated ect

[j8.]

cnow your IRD's.

DISH Network 1000 Receiver
A basic unit which was mostly sold as a second receiver or as a inexpensive replacement receiver. The menu system is not as sophisticated as other receivers but it gets the job done. Has NO JTAG port.

DISH Network 2700 and 2800 Receivers
The best receivers to have for hacking, they are identical on the inside, have easy to access JTAG ports on the bottom and work with Digital Locks.

DISH Network 3700/3800/3900 Receivers
The Dish Network 3700 has a new 4 batteries remote. The 3800 model supports VCR event programming and later 3800 models support interactive programming such as local weather and an advance programming guide. The 3900 model is the same as the later 3800 models. They have easy to access JTAG ports on the bottom and work with Digital Locks


DISH Network 4900 Receiver
Looks identical to the 3700/3800 and the 3900 models, but has a UHF remote that penetrates walls and has two sets of audio/video out jacks . The operating software was similar to the 3900 with advance auto tune capability. They have JTAG ports and work with Digital Locks.


DISH Network 301 Receiver
There are two models, the 301-10 and the 301-013 (which may not work with older ROMs. It features a low-profile design a universal IR remote control, interactive Instant weather for user-defined weather information for nearly 900 cities, V-chip type technology for Parental Control, JTAG port (may not have the case cut out for it so you have to remove the board to JTAG it). Depending on the version you may need to do the VID MOD to be able to use ROM 2 and 3 cards in it.

Dish PVR 501 Receiver
The DishPVR 501 is an integrated satellite TV receiver and Personal Video Recorder that can record up to 35 hours of programming in Dolby Digital. They have JTAG ports and work with Digital Locks.

Dish PVR 721 Receiver with dual tuners
The dual tuners will allow you watch one channel while digitally recording another. Does not have a JTAG port, to read the TSOP you need a "Sombrero", a clip on device. A pain in the butt in general.


Dish 6000 High Definition TV Receiver
You will need a third dish aimed at the 61.5° to receive the HDTV stations. They have JTAG ports (case needs to be cut) and have never been hit by an ECM. Kind of expensive but the picture is amazing (HDTV TV is needed).huck just tring to help here is something u may find interesting

[j8.]

Source: thedssguy

Jumping from DTV to FTA requires YOU to do alot of homework. DTV was too easy and spoiled everyone. Consequently what we have are a bunch of free Tver's wanting more free TV, nice & easy, the way they've always had it.

True hobbiest led the way for others by pioneering the software to make the FTA boxxes decrypt encrypted signals from various providers. The use of the FTA receiver to get these Sats and transponders towit "channels" requires a software modification of the firmware inside the IRD (integrated receiver decoder). Flashing a Pansat 2300a with the x-7500 bin and THEN using compatible equiptment (i.e. dishes,lnbs, etc.) will facilitate the decryption of the transmitted data. In other words, If you flash a unit and have a D T V or DN dish pointed at the proper satellite, you will get TV.

There are many sats in the sky and D T V uses 101 as their main transmitting sat. From behind the D T V dish you would turn the dish to the right to find 110 and further right will be the 119. These are also slightly lower in elevation. If you are NOT a true hobbiest and slightly mechanically inclined, aiming the dish will probably be a tedious & frustrating experience for you. It's better to call a professional and have him aim the dish than to make yourself and others crazy. There are how to's all along the way, but again I say, this requires YOU to do homework and educate yourselves about what actually transpires to bring you TV. You CAN USE D T V Equiptment to find the sats! There's a post here explaining how. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR SYSTEM! Tracking the sats accurately will give you exactly what you're looking for, and a strong, quality signal IS neccessary! Many of these boxxes (FTA's) are capable of tracking 63 different sats and receiving over 3500 channels (setup properly w/switch's). Yes , these receivers also require a switch to correctly choose (track) the satellite of the channel you request with your remote control. When the dish is installed correctly complete w/switch, and the IRD has been flashed (modified) you will have what you wanted, Glorious uninterupted TV!

Please, take the time to read up on what you're trying to do. These forums are for technical questions. Do your homework before you ask. FTA is here to stay, so jump in if you want. Be prepared to work a little and strain your brain a little. Use these forums properly. There are rules that MUST be followed. Read & understand them first. Then post only when neccessary and in the proper forums.

Also RTFM! Read the f*ckn manual! READ THE MANUAL that comes with the receiver! There is a lot of important info in there that explains as to how things work with the FTA system, compared to just hooking up the dish and using the old card method, maybe paying someone to program it for you. This stuff is based on YOU doing the reading and hooking up the hardware. Read the manual 5 times, you learn more each time, and if you have time, read as many questions and answers already posted, especially the programming, downloading sats etc. Pre-test your cable with an ohmeter, check all your connectios, use a signal meter etc. Read, Read, Read, till your eyes bleed. If this is NOT for you, hire a professional or sub to one of the providers in your area.

[j8.]

another

[LuckLarry]

Theres many opinions on whats best, for sure, but what I consider to be the best way to test is the method that offers the greatest amount of uninterrupted viewing time with the least amount of playing around. Heres my results and opinions...yours may vary!
(1)The king is emulation.By far the most stable.I've gone several months at atime without ANY issue.
(2)Testing Rom3 and Rom10 cards.A close second, if you get brave. I had a dishnet Rom3 blockerless last 6 months without an incident.Got locked at rev383 and I lost it trying to open it.I DO NOT encourage blockerless...I'm just braver than most.
(3)magic cards.Can't be killed by the providers, but they make an ecm target for sure. Digital locks a must for this method
(4) I will include atmega/avr in the same category. These would be my last pickNot very stable at all, and an easy ecmtarget. Locks a must.

I didn't mention dssrev or fta because I don't test them. I do see a lot of issue with fta, and I'm quite sure that they will be the focus of both providers now that they are getting popular.

[chuckb01]

Since I'm new to this forum, I may make a few mistakes so please take this into account.
I believe the item marked thedssguy was sent by j8? Any how it is very informative. In my original list of questions, I said I was a retired elec. tech. I was in business for over 20 years and repaired and built a variety of equipment including ham radio, , cb radio, and any type of home electronics. If it plugged in, I knew how it worked. Pretty much anyhow.
And as far as this being a hobby, that may very well be true. Thousands of people who got the now infamous letters from dave called themselves "hobbiests" also. dave didn't care. I'm not going to beat around the bush here. I love electronics and I love a challenge, and I like to watch TV. And what I do with what I learn is strictly for myself. If anyone I know wants "free tv", let them figure out how and buy whats necessary to do it. Nuf said. Thanks for the info though. I appreciate it.

[LuckLarry]

Since I'm new to this forum, I may make a few mistakes so please take this into account.
I believe the item marked thedssguy was sent by j8? Any how it is very informative. In my original list of questions, I said I was a retired elec. tech. I was in business for over 20 years and repaired and built a variety of equipment including ham radio, , cb radio, and any type of home electronics. If it plugged in, I knew how it worked. Pretty much anyhow.
And as far as this being a hobby, that may very well be true. Thousands of people who got the now infamous letters from dave called themselves "hobbiests" also. dave didn't care. I'm not going to beat around the bush here. I love electronics and I love a challenge, and I like to watch TV. And what I do with what I learn is strictly for myself. If anyone I know wants "free tv", let them figure out how and buy whats necessary to do it. Nuf said. Thanks for the info though. I appreciate it.


If you like a challenge and consider yourself "handy", invest in a 4900 Dishnet receiver, a digital lock, an internal emu and a jtag.Set yourself up with emulation and have a rom10 for backup and you will watch more tv than you can stand. All the stuff is readily and safely available.If you need help, just yell.The help ethic here is great, with good mods in place.

[chuckb01]

good stuff!

[j8.]

i have 2 721s running excellent ird only been down once so far with one ird using atmega and it was do to recent p-k change the other 721 never went down sence streamed using plastic on that one keys rolled along with p-k change

[Jewel]

Just to provide a more accurate info on the PVR721:

j8. wrote :

"Dish PVR 721 Receiver with dual tuners
The dual tuners will allow you watch one channel while digitally recording another. Does not have a JTAG port, to read the TSOP you need a "Sombrero", a clip on device. A pain in the butt in general."

There is no such thing as a "Sombrero" device to clip on for this model. The flashchip is a BGA not a TSOP so the "Sombrero" has nowhere to connect on external pins. BGA have "balls" under with 0.8mm spacing (For this particular model of flashchip). I do agree on this though : it is a pain in the butt in general in term of testing. Getting the boxkeys out of the box is somehow harder than finding the "Holy Grail".

Jewel

[j8.]

well got boxkeys out of my too i found it real easy i had alot of irds in past realy like these the best and at this time not a ecm target

[chuckb01]

Welcome Chuck. You have about the best post I have ever seen asking about getting into echostar testing.

There is a million ways to test, I myself find the closest to the " real" system is the best with the least ecm's.


Thankyou. You are very kind. It will take me a few days to go over this entire forum. And get throughly confused. Any help you feel like giving regarding what equipment to purchase and maybe where, would be appreciated. Thanks again.

[chuckb01]

another


Very interesting and informative. Thankyou. Sorry for the delay

[chuckb01]

cnow your IRD's.

DISH Network 1000 Receiver
A basic unit which was mostly sold as a second receiver or as a inexpensive replacement receiver. The menu system is not as sophisticated as other receivers but it gets the job done. Has NO JTAG port.

DISH Network 2700 and 2800 Receivers
The best receivers to have for hacking, they are identical on the inside, have easy to access JTAG ports on the bottom and work with Digital Locks.

DISH Network 3700/3800/3900 Receivers
The Dish Network 3700 has a new 4 batteries remote. The 3800 model supports VCR event programming and later 3800 models support interactive programming such as local weather and an advance programming guide. The 3900 model is the same as the later 3800 models. They have easy to access JTAG ports on the bottom and work with Digital Locks


DISH Network 4900 Receiver
Looks identical to the 3700/3800 and the 3900 models, but has a UHF remote that penetrates walls and has two sets of audio/video out jacks . The operating software was similar to the 3900 with advance auto tune capability. They have JTAG ports and work with Digital Locks.


DISH Network 301 Receiver
There are two models, the 301-10 and the 301-013 (which may not work with older ROMs. It features a low-profile design a universal IR remote control, interactive Instant weather for user-defined weather information for nearly 900 cities, V-chip type technology for Parental Control, JTAG port (may not have the case cut out for it so you have to remove the board to JTAG it). Depending on the version you may need to do the VID MOD to be able to use ROM 2 and 3 cards in it.

Dish PVR 501 Receiver
The DishPVR 501 is an integrated satellite TV receiver and Personal Video Recorder that can record up to 35 hours of programming in Dolby Digital. They have JTAG ports and work with Digital Locks.

Dish PVR 721 Receiver with dual tuners
The dual tuners will allow you watch one channel while digitally recording another. Does not have a JTAG port, to read the TSOP you need a "Sombrero", a clip on device. A pain in the butt in general.


Dish 6000 High Definition TV Receiver
You will need a third dish aimed at the 61.5° to receive the HDTV stations. They have JTAG ports (case needs to be cut) and have never been hit by an ECM. Kind of expensive but the picture is amazing (HDTV TV is needed).huck just tring to help here is something u may find interesting

Where can I find a 4900 at a good price do you think? And what would I all need for necessary test equipment? What's necessary and what's extra, to maybe make life a little easier. What about these blackbird IRDs? do they need to be modified, or can they be? Or would the 4900 be better? Thanks.

[chuckb01]

Source: thedssguy

Jumping from DTV to FTA requires YOU to do alot of homework. DTV was too easy and spoiled everyone. Consequently what we have are a bunch of free Tver's wanting more free TV, nice & easy, the way they've always had it.

True hobbiest led the way for others by pioneering the software to make the FTA boxxes decrypt encrypted signals from various providers. The use of the FTA receiver to get these Sats and transponders towit "channels" requires a software modification of the firmware inside the IRD (integrated receiver decoder). Flashing a Pansat 2300a with the x-7500 bin and THEN using compatible equiptment (i.e. dishes,lnbs, etc.) will facilitate the decryption of the transmitted data. In other words, If you flash a unit and have a D T V or DN dish pointed at the proper satellite, you will get TV.

There are many sats in the sky and D T V uses 101 as their main transmitting sat. From behind the D T V dish you would turn the dish to the right to find 110 and further right will be the 119. These are also slightly lower in elevation. If you are NOT a true hobbiest and slightly mechanically inclined, aiming the dish will probably be a tedious & frustrating experience for you. It's better to call a professional and have him aim the dish than to make yourself and others crazy. There are how to's all along the way, but again I say, this requires YOU to do homework and educate yourselves about what actually transpires to bring you TV. You CAN USE D T V Equiptment to find the sats! There's a post here explaining how. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR SYSTEM! Tracking the sats accurately will give you exactly what you're looking for, and a strong, quality signal IS neccessary! Many of these boxxes (FTA's) are capable of tracking 63 different sats and receiving over 3500 channels (setup properly w/switch's). Yes , these receivers also require a switch to correctly choose (track) the satellite of the channel you request with your remote control. When the dish is installed correctly complete w/switch, and the IRD has been flashed (modified) you will have what you wanted, Glorious uninterupted TV!

Please, take the time to read up on what you're trying to do. These forums are for technical questions. Do your homework before you ask. FTA is here to stay, so jump in if you want. Be prepared to work a little and strain your brain a little. Use these forums properly. There are rules that MUST be followed. Read & understand them first. Then post only when neccessary and in the proper forums.

Also RTFM! Read the f*ckn manual! READ THE MANUAL that comes with the receiver! There is a lot of important info in there that explains as to how things work with the FTA system, compared to just hooking up the dish and using the old card method, maybe paying someone to program it for you. This stuff is based on YOU doing the reading and hooking up the hardware. Read the manual 5 times, you learn more each time, and if you have time, read as many questions and answers already posted, especially the programming, downloading sats etc. Pre-test your cable with an ohmeter, check all your connectios, use a signal meter etc. Read, Read, Read, till your eyes bleed. If this is NOT for you, hire a professional or sub to one of the providers in your area.

I don't think you wrote this, correct? It's good but the guy that wrote it has somewhat of a big head. Where did you find it, just out of curriosity?

[chuckb01]

Theres many opinions on whats best, for sure, but what I consider to be the best way to test is the method that offers the greatest amount of uninterrupted viewing time with the least amount of playing around. Heres my results and opinions...yours may vary!
(1)The king is emulation.By far the most stable.I've gone several months at atime without ANY issue.
(2)Testing Rom3 and Rom10 cards.A close second, if you get brave. I had a dishnet Rom3 blockerless last 6 months without an incident.Got locked at rev383 and I lost it trying to open it.I DO NOT encourage blockerless...I'm just braver than most.
(3)magic cards.Can't be killed by the providers, but they make an ecm target for sure. Digital locks a must for this method
(4) I will include atmega/avr in the same category. These would be my last pickNot very stable at all, and an easy ecmtarget. Locks a must.

I didn't mention dssrev or fta because I don't test them. I do see a lot of issue with fta, and I'm quite sure that they will be the focus of both providers now that they are getting popular.

Thanks for the nice reply. I'm picking up a lot here. Now I need to know what to buy and where. Emulation sounds good but I would like to try several methods and buy what's necessary, probably including a magic card. I have noticed there are a lot of places to buy this stuff from. Who do you think has the best prices and is reliable? I know dtv was loaded with scammers and you really had to be careful. Thanks..

[Crazy1_79]

Where can I find a 4900 at a good price do you think? And what would I all need for necessary test equipment? What's necessary and what's extra, to maybe make life a little easier. What about these blackbird IRDs? do they need to be modified, or can they be? Or would the 4900 be better? Thanks.
A jtag is a must a jtaggable receiver is a must, Charlie (our nickname for dish network) will send out ECM's that will rewrite your tsop on your receiver rendering useless, How often does this occur? Your guess is as good as mine, with a good setup (no programming error and thing like that) I have had over 3 months of uninteruppted tv, I did have to reprogram the ppv tiers a few times to get ppv to stop asking to be purchased.

4900's go for a good price on Ebay, with a good dishnet rom card you will be looking at around 125 to 150 dollars, but they are very easy to jtag and the guide is fast therefore on of my favorites, the 2xxx series models and the 3xxx models are just too slow for me but once again easy to work with.

You now have options as for which way you want to decrypt the data stream, You have Avr's and EMulators (no eperience here on how they work), then you have atmegas and Magic cards, have used both and they are easy to work with, the Magic Card is about as plug and play as it gets but these are emulation and do not therefore mimic the actual rom cards as well as the rom cards so when a key change takes effect you have to wait for the genius' behind these products to make a update and release the software. Then you have rom cards, these come in a variety of roms 2,3,10 and some 11's being programmable, I use rom 10's with a private blocker.

Private blocker ensures that dish will not lock you out of your card with current eeprom revisions of the cards, however in new light software has been released that will allow a modded hu loader the capability to unlock these new revisions therefore making a blocker a option.

NOw you will need a method of programming these devices used to decrypt the data stream, you will get programmers with your magic card and Atmega that will allow you to program them, If you choose rom cards you will need to invest in a ISO 7816 3.68 mhz programmer to program these,

NOw in aspect of where to buy these things, The site you are on is THE safest place to buy this stuff as Mili is based off shore in the Bahamas, You may save a few bucks buying from somewhere else but like you said "Send your money to canada and never seen anything for it" or something along those lines.

ONe more thing to add, I recommend a "buffered jtag" I had one and got rid of it in favor of the quad mode jtag and am having a hell of time trying to jtag receiver now. I think it may have went to hell but am uncertain at this point.

[chuckb01]

If you like a challenge and consider yourself "handy", invest in a 4900 Dishnet receiver, a digital lock, an internal emu and a jtag.Set yourself up with emulation and have a rom10 for backup and you will watch more tv than you can stand. All the stuff is readily and safely available.If you need help, just yell.The help ethic here is great, with good mods in place.

I'm leaning toward the 4900 and now need to look for one, and the other hardware. By the way, where is a good place to get all the necessary software and files? In this forum somewhere maybe? Sorry for the delay. Been down a couple days and actually just read this.

[Crazy1_79]

yes there is downoad for the public, go to the top of this page and look for public downloads, One of the best public downloads I have ever found, Just about any program you could ever want is in there. Also another newbie guide is at www.bellexpress.vu in the getting started section, a Good tutorial with good pictures. It is the sister site to this site.

[chuckb01]

Good stuff! Thankyou. A guy named Lucklarry provided some answers to my thread also. He likes emulation and says that works good for him. Right now I'm still absorbing info and need to decide what to try. It's going to take a while. But I'm sick of cable. My wife says the only thing on that's not a rerun is the weather channel.

[Crazy1_79]

Yeah but the wheather channel is wrong 85 percent of the time!!! lol

[chuckb01]

I've got that newbie guide. good also.

[chuckb01]

Yeah but the wheather channel is wrong 85 percent of the time!!! lol

Amen to that. Kind of like politicians. Got to shut down for tonight. Thanks and bye..

[j8.]

i never leaned toward emultion but eveyone has his own opion and you were right chuck i did not write any of it just copy pasted from anouthers site its a good site id rather not say in forms think u understand just wanted to do some resourde for you and help a little id learn tword a rom cam and that 4900 if thats what u want should be fine wiyh that defently get a jtag i just got one a spare on ebay for about 18 usd shiped if that helps dont know too much on mc im using rom 10 and atmegas

[stinkfist]

The first thing that you will notice once you get started testing charlie is that the receivers are slow compared to DTV. I have tested and have just about all of the different kinds of dishnetwork receivers. Throu my testing I have to favor the 721's and the 301.010's. They seam to be the fastest changing channels and the guide works the best on these to. Don't get me wrong the 4700 & 4900 are good receivers but the tv picture on the guide takes forever to come up and it changes channels slow. Also you have to wait a long time when you first program a card for the signal to come in. If I could go back in time I would buy four 721's and a couple of 301.010's. There are things that I may be wrong on because I am new to this to but this is my experience. 721's are great!! Good luck. :) :)

[j8.]

721s agree

[chuckb01]

The first thing that you will notice once you get started testing charlie is that the receivers are slow compared to DTV. I have tested and have just about all of the different kinds of dishnetwork receivers. Throu my testing I have to favor the 721's and the 301.010's. They seam to be the fastest changing channels and the guide works the best on these to. Don't get me wrong the 4700 & 4900 are good receivers but the tv picture on the guide takes forever to come up and it changes channels slow. Also you have to wait a long time when you first program a card for the signal to come in. If I could go back in time I would buy four 721's and a couple of 301.010's. There are things that I may be wrong on because I am new to this to but this is my experience. 721's are great!! Good luck. :) :)


Guess I'll look for a 721 also. Thanks. :)

[j8.]

wont be sorry but do some reading get blue cam also new one never in stream or u be screwed i know one person has one all ready pm me if u want

[Crazy1_79]

Time for a jtag my friend, if you do not know what a jtag is, then go to www.bellexpress.vu and read the getting started guide, You can learn about them there.

[Phred]

If you like a challenge and consider yourself "handy", invest in a 4900 Dishnet receiver, a digital lock, an internal emu and a jtag.Set yourself up with emulation and have a rom10 for backup and you will watch more tv than you can stand. All the stuff is readily and safely available.If you need help, just yell.The help ethic here is great, with good mods in place.


Ok LL,
I am thinking I want to try emu. I have an EMU board from DTV days. Can I use this board in a charlie rcvr?

It seems to me that emu and an FTA rcvr would be the best way to go, what do you think?

[Phred]

(1)The king is emulation.By far the most stable.I've gone several months at atime without ANY issue.
(2)Testing Rom3 and Rom10 cards.A close second, if you get brave. I had a dishnet Rom3 blockerless last 6 months without an incident.Got locked at rev383 and I lost it trying to open it.I DO NOT encourage blockerless...I'm just braver than most.

A quick search of the store reveals no hardware for emu. Where can the needed hardware be safely aquired? And if I want to do that internal emu and lock, I see the lock on millis store but no internal emu, where can I find the internal emu or can I just wire a 9 pin serial connector to somewhere in the receiver and have it come out of the case to a computer?

My soldering skils are a little weak, I cant build boards but I can usual hook up a few wires.

[LuckLarry]

A quick search of the store reveals no hardware for emu. Where can the needed hardware be safely aquired? And if I want to do that internal emu and lock, I see the lock on millis store but no internal emu, where can I find the internal emu or can I just wire a 9 pin serial connector to somewhere in the receiver and have it come out of the case to a computer?

My soldering skils are a little weak, I cant build boards but I can usual hook up a few wires.



Hi bud...I get my hardware from satemu.com. Great product and support.I believe thet're in Canada, so keep that inmind.As far as the way the emu is connected, it uses the phone connection on the receiver to connect to your computer, via a phone to serial port adapter which is supplied with the kit. I uses the 2313/232 internal kit which is complete and ready to go. Atmel comes preflashed. Wire it in, make your floppy and watch t.v.

[j8.]

ck just picked up a 2700 if intrested pm me