View Full Version : Is the USA really fighting a war on terror?
I’ve had this opinion for a while now, and now I’m throwing it out there for critique. Before I get too far into this though, please try to take some time to think about this concept before posting your gut response…and I’m sure most will have an opinion on this one.
How can the USA claim to be fighting a war on terrorism when the USA supplies Israel with firearms, tanks, planes, missile’s and just about anything else Israel could ever ask for militarily speaking? How and why has the USA allied itself so closely with Israel? Because what Israel does with these weapons is in every way terrorism against the Palestinian’s. How can the USA ever expect to achieve peace in the Middle East, in any country, until we stop sponsoring Israel’s religious crusades? How come we haven’t bombed the living shit out of Saudi Arabia? Fourteen of the seventeen guys that did 9/11 were Saudi’s trained in Afghanistan. (And had no ties what so ever to anyone in Iraq) The USA needs to seriously re-evaluate it’s foreign policy in the Middle East if we ever expect to get anything productive done over there. For those who don’t understand how religion ties into this, Israeli’s are Jewish, and the Palestinian’s are Islamic/Muslim. The bulk of the Middle East is Islamic including the vast majority in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan; pretty much the entire area except Israel. These guys don’t have much to cling to in life except religious tenets, so religion plays a huge role in this situation. In other words, if you read the same ‘bible’, you’re allies. (Saddam Hussein is Bathist, which is a weird offshoot of Islam that I don’t understand very well, but I think they paid little more than tribute compared to the true believers of Islam) The USA is not fighting a unilateral war on terrorism. We’re picking and choosing what to call terrorism according to our own western values. By doing this we are not promoting freedom. It’s quite the contrary, we are sponsoring oppression and trying to force our capitalistic worldview on a people who will just never see things quite the same way we do. Quite simply, they live in a different world than we do. In my firm opinion, the USA needs to seriously re-evaluate its foreign policy in the Middle East. As we all know the Bush/Cheney administration are huge proponents of the Middle East foreign policy described above. This is just one of the many examples why we should be voting Kerry/Edwards on November 2nd.
RoofleChicken
10-27-2004, 03:55 AM
Last time I checked Israelis weren't donning bomb vests and blowing themselves up in crowds of people. Israel was attacked in 1948 at its birth, in 1967 and 1973. Their entire history has been one of fighting for their survival. They didn't start it, but they are pretty good at finishing things once they start. Be thankful they operate the way they do. Had they not pre-emptively struck Saddam's Osirak Nuclear Complex in 1981 Saddam would have had his A bomb when he waltzed into Kuwait. Calling Israelis "terrorists" is ludicrous. They are the only stable democracy in the Middle East. Apparently the argument you make is that we should just abandon them. Since when is walking away leaving your steadfast allies alone with the wolves any way to conduct business?
Why do we use the soft sell with the Saudis? Oil my friend. We use half or the world's oil. Our economic survival depends on it. We have two choices: Play ball to some degree with them or engulf the planet in a winner take all war over their oil reserves. Guess which plan is going to happen.
This isn't 1917. The United States can't expect to hide away from things in the world we don't like and just expect not to be bothered by them. September 11 should have proved that to anyone. These people hate us and will stop at nothing to destroy us. They can't be reasoned with, they can't be negotiated with. They have to be crushed and swept away. To believe otherwise ignores all the lessons of history. The United States must shoulder the burden of making sure the world is safe whether we want to or not. Our survival depends on it.
If you have any doubts go to Israel and see what is going on for yourself. I don't want to have to live like they do. Kerry doesn't grasp the significanc eof what is happing. He's too busy trying to be all things to all people. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the beginning of the end of our way of life as we've known it.
Israel is a democracy but that does not mean they are not an opressive bunch of people to anyone NOT Israely around them. You do nto need to go far to find religious fanatics in Israel just as bad as the Palestinians except they don't have to resort to terror as it is implemented at goverment level. Saddam's regime was a secular regime and Baath was just a political secular party now outlawd. The USA's Middle East policy is dicated by one thing only and it is OIL. You cannot beat the Saudis as you need a stable regime in place that ensures the flow of OIL to the USA. Until the USA does not completely do away with the reliance on Midlle Eastern OIL (other sources, alternative fuels etc...) you will not see a logical, democratic and just policy implemented, instead you will see plenty lip service and asskissing, double standard and cowardice (guess why they hate you there?)
mili
jt u have no clue bud. these fucking palestine idiots strapping vest on and blowing up everything and anything, iraq fuck them to been there and done that sand sucks and so does iraq was there in the first war. :flipa: peace for our troops in the second one come home safe
RoofleChicken
10-27-2004, 04:55 AM
Israel is a democracy but that does not mean they are not an opressive bunch of people to anyone NOT Israely around them.
True but I'm reasonably certain the events of 1933-1945 and their three wars probably has a great deal to do with that attitude. Look how pissed we got over 9/11. That's a grain of sand on their beach.
jt u have no clue bud. these fucking palestine idiots strapping vest on and blowing up everything and anything, iraq fuck them to been there and done that sand sucks and so does iraq was there in the first war. :flipa: peace for our troops in the second one come home safe
So according to you a suicide bomber who takes out at best 20 people is worse than bulldozing thousands of homes and indiscriminently bombing entire communities from the air. Ok, but that thinking doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't there at least a slight possibility the Isreal inspires these suicide bombings?
they fuck peeps up that fuck them up can u blame them
they fuck peeps up that fuck them up can u blame them
Absolutely, you bet I have the right to hold it against them. This kind of philisophy would have the entire planet killing each other because at one time so and so did such and such until everyone is dead.
....an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind....
As Roger Waters sang:
"And the Germans killed the Jews and the Jews killed the Arabs and the Arabs killed the hostages and that is the news, is it any wonder that the monkey is confused?"
And that
"Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"
mili
Well, Bin Laden has a new video, and in it he plainly states that it's the Israeli-American alliance that inspired 9/11. Here is a snippet from this morning’s paper:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Article written by Maggie Michael of the AP,
....He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital. "While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said. "God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said. ....
----------------------------------------------------
There is a hell of a lot more Bin Laden had to say that made it clear the Bush administration has failed miserably in the war against the Bin Laden led extremists, but these are the quotes relevant to this particular debate. For Chief's sake, I will refrain from getting into the other ways I think the current "war on terror" is a joke. This one single point is so significant that if we were to change this one thing regarding our foreign policy it would go farther than all measures taken so far in the war on terror. Specifically, we need to stop condoning and supporting Israel’s crusades.
copakeman
10-30-2004, 06:11 PM
jt, i havent seen or read bout any isralies flying jumbo airliners into skyscrapers and killing 3000 peeps whose only crime was to go to work that morning. please take off ur rose colered glasses and see whats really going on in the world. the USA is involved in a WORLD war against terrorist. these terrorist a united under 1 banner, kill and enslave ALL others. they r not religious, they are in the same boat with hitler, stallin, mao, ho chi min and the rest of that discusting trash. do not forget the world trade center disaster, ever. thsee terrorist cut off innocent peoples heads, there leader al zacawi is not an iraqui, he is from syria. a large majority of terrorist in iraq r from other countries. the USA govt will save my and your childrens lives under gw bush. if kerry gets elected, our troops will be brought back from iraq and afganistan immediaetly, not kosovo, that was bills war.
if kerrys election happens, u will see a tremdous rise in terrorist activity against the free world, including spain.
c
jt, i havent seen or read bout any isralies flying jumbo airliners into skyscrapers and killing 3000 peeps whose only crime was to go to work that morning. please take off ur rose colered glasses and see whats really going on in the world. the USA is involved in a WORLD war against terrorist. these terrorist a united under 1 banner, kill and enslave ALL others. they r not religious, they are in the same boat with hitler, stallin, mao, ho chi min and the rest of that discusting trash. do not forget the world trade center disaster, ever. thsee terrorist cut off innocent peoples heads, there leader al zacawi is not an iraqui, he is from syria. a large majority of terrorist in iraq r from other countries. the USA govt will save my and your childrens lives under gw bush. if kerry gets elected, our troops will be brought back from iraq and afganistan immediaetly, not kosovo, that was bills war.
if kerrys election happens, u will see a tremdous rise in terrorist activity against the free world, including spain.
c
copakeman- You missed the point entirely. Bin Laden, in his latest video release, said it himself that the inspiration for attacking the United States is the Israeli-American alliance. That was the whole point I was trying to make with my initial post. And by the way, the Jews have been slaughtering the Muslims in the Middle East for at least my lifetime. The death toll is closer to 3 million Palestinians than it is 3000 over there. A lot of Jews have died too, but it's the part about America choosing a side and involving itself in this conflict that I have a problem with. America supplies Israel with weapons and just about anything else they ask for. We should let them fight their holy wars without the United States supporting EITHER side. Muslims control OPEC, just for starters.
xenadishprinces
10-30-2004, 09:00 PM
We can have an alliance with whomever we wish. That does not justify 9/11. I'm sure Israel is not happy about France's alliance with Arafat, but you don't see them flying a plane into the Eiffel Tower.
We get you point JT. Jews are evil. Jews are the cause of all the problem in the world. You hate Jews.
0zone
10-30-2004, 09:58 PM
I think they don’t have problem with who we alliance with problem seem to be who we providing weapons of mass distraction!! To kill innocent people every day on name of terrorism. No one hates Jews! We hate terrorist for 9/11.....
Palestinians hate them and us because of the bullets kills them every day say *Made in USA*......
Ozone
paulypauly
10-30-2004, 10:11 PM
I have many friends over there and luckily none of my frineds have been killed. I hate seeing on the news when someone local has passed away. I wait in fear that it will be one of my friends. I do not want to see anyone else die in this action taken. I want the issues to be setteled and my friends and all military and civilian people come home. I fear that this will not happen anytime soon.
We can have an alliance with whomever we wish. That does not justify 9/11. I'm sure Israel is not happy about France's alliance with Arafat, but you don't see them flying a plane into the Eiffel Tower.
We get you point JT. Jews are evil. Jews are the cause of all the problem in the world. You hate Jews.
I don't hate Jews. :rolleyes: I have no religious affiliation what so ever. I view the Jews living in Israel and participating in these activities as criminals, (so are the Palestinians) but they have very little or nothing to do with Jews or Muslims here in America. Again, you've missed the point entirely.
What I hate is the fact that the United States has a policy of choosing a side in this holy war. A war that can never be won by either side. A war that the people of the Middle East will likely never stop fighting. So lets not support EITHER side. This is a holy war that can not be won. Both the Jews and the Palestinians in the Middle East are guilty of making killing the other their life’s mission. No rational thought will ever overcome someone motivated by religious rite. The Israeli's will never stop attacking the Palestinians; and vice versa. There's nothing we can do about that. But if the United States would stop providing Israel with the weapons that are blowing up in Palestinian back yards, the Muslims would quit thinking of the United States as a nation that is worthy of a terrorist attack. Osama just said it himself, "It's the Israeli-American alliance that inspire attacks against the United States." ....and this was the only point I was trying to make. I don't hate Jews and I haven’t said anything that would support the notion that I do. And by the way, France does not ally itself with Arafat. I don't know where the hell you came up with that. The only folks that ally themselves with the Palestinians are Muslim nations like Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc.
copakeman
11-01-2004, 08:50 PM
JT, do you really believe ANYTHING bin laden says ? he is a ruthless murderer of over 3000 innocent people on just one day alone. In the last 30 years, hundreds , if not thousands Americans have been killed and executed by the mid east bin laden's. His latest tape echo's Kerry bs about America, well if u believe bin laden , you have some company in the the USA, sadly.
c
You have to realize that the the excuses Bin Laden uses to justify his attacks are just that. Excuses. If the U.S. and Isreal were enemies then, Bin Laden would find another excuse to kill Americans because him and his fanatics have one goal in mind and that is to just Kill Americans. The U.S. could pull completely out of the middle East and he would find another angle to spread his hatred. The next excuse would be that most Americans aren't Muslim so they are Evil and must be killed. Fanatics are fanatics whichever spin you put on it and the only way to deal with them is to kill them. That's just the way it is. They are so blinded by hatred and taught from an early age that America is the Evil satan and and even if you die killing them you'll go to Heaven and have 72 virgins. What a crock of sheeeet!
Since when does God reward you for killing. If only they knew that what they are doing will only get them a shovel and alot of coal.
PCB2
tazspin
11-05-2004, 04:27 AM
A few fucking point I feel I must point out for the truly fucking ignorant the fucking jews are killing the palestines becase the palestines are purposesly targeting innocent civillians the jews are targeting legitimate targets (leaders of hamas, the famillies of suicide bombers, places used to make weapons, smuggling tunnels and others responsible for attacks on civillians the jews did not start the war the fucking arabs did because they were pissed that the league of nations or whatever that international body that later was replaced with the fucking U.N. gave the jews back isreal after world war 2 wich eliminatewd the state of palestine and no other arab, muslim or whatever the fuck you want to call them country would integrate the palestines into their country instead they kept them in refugee camp (purposily making them feel betrayed and to hate the jews) then in 67 several arab countries attacked Isreal they defended themselves and took land wich now the sore losers who started the war want back. And as stated earlier even if we were to abandon the jews as our allies the fucking radical islamic extremist would find another reason to hate us (like the embargo we use to have on Iraq wich bitch laden listed as a reason for 9-11 or just the fact we don't give them enough aid) And lets not forget that 9-11 took several years in the making and Bush was only in office for 8 months when it happened so wouldn't Bill be the one who messed up
tazspin
11-05-2004, 04:41 AM
Oh yeah not to mention if it wasn't for the U.S. trying to keep Isreal restrained in thier retalitons the jews would be killing a hell of lot more Palestinians then they are.
purplekush
11-05-2004, 08:15 AM
The US has been supporting the saudi royal family way too long!!
oil....bush
the best trained...and armed terrorist.....saudi.
more people have died..in the name of god..then all the world wars!!!
A church is just A cult ...with more members!
If the US would stop sellin' their alaskan/texas oil....and keep it...much easier.
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