Cband

[Frank6926]

I have been down the road for a long time. DTV, BEV and an attempt at DISH. Nothing works now. I do however have a Cband 10' dish and a Motorolla receiver with 4 different moduals that bring in some Cban stuff. My question is Can I modify my Cband receiver and or modula and or LNB to bring in free to air? I have all this hardware and not much to watch. thanks Frank

[Crow 492]

The Motarolla reciever is analog and not DVB like the new FTA receivers. But theres is a card slot and its ment for what was called the Black Card, or Grey Card. And yes you could get FREE TO AIR C band & yes there is still analog ch out there. And check out http://www.lyngsat.com/

C-band for the Clueless

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With Nagra2 panic running rampant, it is fitting to provide an FAQ for those looking into C-band as a possible alternative.

Can I use my existing 18" dish?
No! The 18" dish is WAY too small. The LNB is not correct.

Can I hack Videocipher II with my Pansat, Fortec, Coolsat, or other FTA receiver?
No. VC2 is analog. FTA receivers only get DVB digital. If you hook your FTA receiver to a BUD, then you will get many FTA channels that are broadcast on C-band, but none of them will be premium or basic cable stations.

Can I get Digicipher2 channels with my Pansat, Fortec, Coolsat, or other FTA receiver?
No. Although both FTA receivers and Digicipher receivers are in digital formats, they are incompatible formats. Digicipher2 channels can only be received with an expensive 4DTV receiver. A few of those channels are FTA (meaning free-to-air) but you need to use hidden menus to access them. Most Digicipher2 channels are encrypted and require a subscription with a 4DTV receiver. There is no hack for Digicipher2.

On Lyngsat, I see alot of DVB-encoded C-band channels that are PowerVu. Is there any way to watch these?
No. PowerVu is an unhacked encryption system. They are not even available for subscription. Consider them to not even be there.

What size dish do I need for C-band?
7 to 10 foot is recommended. I have seen C-band analog work with a 5 foot solid dish, but that was in the middle of the country where the strongest signal is. If you live on the coasts, it may or may not be an option. That is the absolute smallest dish you can use for C-band. Don't attempt to try C-band with a 33" dish. You will be wasting your time and money.

What receiver is required for C-band?
Your FTA receiver will get DVB digital. An analog receiver (Toshiba, General Instruments, Uniden, etc.) will get Videocipher II analog. A 4DTV receiver will get Digicipher2, which is not hacked.

What other equipment is needed for C-band?
In addition to the dish, you need an actuator, polarizer, feedhorn, and lots of C-band ribbon cable. C-band requires big dishes with heavy equipment and alot of moving parts. It's not like hooking up an HH motor that can be controlled by the receiver via a coaxial cable. It's older technology, so it is not that simple.

Will an FTA receiver move a C-band dish like it does with an HH motor?
No. All of the parts required for a C-band dish require far more voltage than an FTA receiver is designed to operate. This means that unless you want a fixed dish (not movable), you will need to get an analog receiver with a dish positioner in addition to the 7 foot dish and the actuator and polarizer.

How long will C-band last?
Forever. That's a trick question just like "How long will FTA last?" C-band will always be where feeds are transmitted for reception by cable and satellite providers. But some changes are going to be happening in the forseeable future that will amount to a C-band version of the N2 swap. The FCC has ruled that all analog channels must go digital to save transponder space. Analog formats are completely hackable. Most digital formats are not. Granted, this isn't going to happen as quickly as Nag-2. But hackable VCII is not going to last forever either. Continued testing will mean someone is going to have to hack Digicipher2 and PowerVu. Those two are the "Nag2" of C-band.

How does Videocipher II autoroll work?
You have to have a modified black 010, 018, or 019 board. It has to have an Autoroll 6.54 chip installed. Most of the hackable boards have green epoxy covering the most important chips. If you get one that is unmodified, you will need to remove the epoxy and replace the U30 chip. This is not something that is recommended for beginners. Autoroll chips can be purchased, but it's better to make your own. The instructions are in these forums. After that, you need to obtain a current codes list because the keys are different for each channel and they change every few hours at different times. It's absolutely NOTHING like Dish/BEV. If you thought key changes every day was a pain, you have seen nothing yet. All keys must be entered manually every time you change the channel.

Is C-band/Videocipher II friendly?
Not by the most remote stretch of the imagination. It requires an internet connection to get the keys. Once you change the channel you will have a picture but no sound. To get the sound you will need to go online to get the latest code. You need to use hidden menus on the remote to enter the keys. If you change the channel, you need to repeat the process again. The Autoroll 6.54 only autorolls current codes if tuned to a single channel. Also, in addition to the complexities of changing channels and entering codes, C-band satellites usually only have a handful of channels. If you're on Showtime and want to go to MTV, it's not as easy as simply pressing the channel on the remote. You need to move the dish from one satellite to another and complete the process described above.
__________________

[Frank6926]

Thanks guys and I hear all you are saying. I have had Cband for about 25 years and have a black modual with an Auto roll 6.02 chip in it. I get some stuff but BEV and DISH have spoiled me. The other thing I hate about what I have is that they tempt you. eg . I am a Nascar fan and on Sunday TNT broadcast the race. It went rain delay for about half an hour and I had Picture and Sound on G5 17. The moment they dropped the Green Flag my sound went to Spanish. The other problem is for eg. G5 - I can see all the transponders but I can't hear them. Sound is scrambled.
I am in an area that will never get Cable so I will just have to be patient until P4 is Hacked or N2 is. The only problem with this hobby is even when that happens we will all be into new hardware. I can only hope that isn't the case. Good luck guys and I am still "Sad on Hollidays" Frank

[Crow 492]

Try Loading the FREE TO AIR ch list on to your receiver. See if that gives you your sound back.

[delco]

How does Videocipher II autoroll work?
You have to have a modified black 010, 018, or 019 board. It has to have an Autoroll 6.54 chip installed. Most of the hackable boards have green epoxy covering the most important chips. If you get one that is unmodified, you will need to remove the epoxy and replace the U30 chip. This is not something that is recommended for beginners. Autoroll chips can be purchased, but it's better to make your own. The instructions are in these forums. After that, you need to obtain a current codes list because the keys are different for each channel and they change every few hours at different times. It's absolutely NOTHING like Dish/BEV. If you thought key changes every day was a pain, you have seen nothing yet. All keys must be entered manually every time you change the channel.

_


there is a mod that will input all the sound codes for all the ch. with one click all the code are down loaded to a computer and then sent to the module from the serial port that can be 50' or less away. makes it much better

[Frank6926]

k my interest is peeked - I dusted off my CBAND and got it working and have entered Audio Codes where I want them. 2 things - What is the dif between Audio and Seed codes - I have a 602 chip. Do I just put the Seed codes in in place of the Audio Codes in setup 1, 1, or what. 2nd. where do I download the codes and to what modual? I have a black Mod. with a 602 chip. thanks Frank

[happysoccerman]

there is a mod that will input all the sound codes for all the ch. with one click all the code are down loaded to a computer and then sent to the module from the serial port that can be 50' or less away. makes it much better
How do I do this.

[muleman]

Info c-ban in zip

[kencal51]

I have a 10' Continental Systems BUD that I installed 21 years ago. It is an aluminum mesh with holes smaller than 1/4". I have recently installed a Corotor II + to add KU band (hopefully to be able to use my FTA receiver). I have some questions as follows:
1. Will this dish work with FTA?
2. What is the proper orientation of the feedhorn in relation to the polar axis of the dish? In the picture that came with the feedhorn it looks like the Ku is at about 11:00 and the C-band is at 5:00 positions. I called the supplier and they said the Ku should be at 3:00 and C-band at 9:00 positions. Is this positon critical?
3. I set the focal distance on the feedhorn at .375 by the instructions. Can this be optimised by using a signal strength meter at the dish and moving it in or out?
4. If I move the dish to a known C-band sat position (i.e. G7 @91 degrees) will this be aligned for the FTA receiver channels at SAT XB (i.e. the WB channels)?

Thanks for any help/advice given.
Ken

[Crow 492]

Many people are now looking for used C band equipment after discovering the amount of DVB channels available on C band. During the big dish boom of the 1980's there were jillions of BUD manufacturers...some with quality products and some with trash. Below is a guideline on what to look for in a BUD, and what to look out for. A thanks goes to NO1WOLVERINE for encouragement to assemble this.

There has always been the discussion of mesh vs. glass vs. perforated. Mesh dishes are lighter and much easier on an actuator, but can be prone to structural damage if you live near a wooded area. Limbs and brush can be blown around by storms and make dents or poke holes in the mesh, not to mention possible hail damage. Some of the earlier mesh dishes had larger holes which cut down a bit on their efficiency, especially if you require KU reception. Don't listen to the hype about a mesh dish not being as prone to wind damage. After the wind gets past damaging stage (50+ mph) the dish cannot pass enough air through the mesh to keep the pressure behind the dish equal to the pressure in front, so it acts just like a solid dish, and the panels will blow out. Boom Boom, out go the lights....

Fiberglass solid dishes are more resistant to contact damage, and they are more true to the parabolic curve, as the fiberglass can be shaped to a much truer shape than mesh panels. The downside though is the fact that glass dishes are MUCH heavier, and after exposure to some seasons of weather the panels can warp in varying degrees. They are much harder on an actuator, and require a much more substantial mounting foundation. Absolutely never get a one piece fiberglass dish. The bottom line is...they WILL warp. I don't recall seeing a one piece that was more than 2 years old that wasn't warped. On a multiple piece dish (3 or more pie shaped pieces) you can tolerate a very small amount of warpage because you can do something about it.

Perf dishes carry some of the same traits as glass dishes, in that they are heavy. Some were stamped steel, while others were aluminum. Their signature is the perfectly round "perforations" in the reflector. Some were one piece and while not quite as easy to warp, when they DO warp there is nothing that can be done. They also aren’t as resistant to contact damage. A perf dish will hold its shape better over time than fiberglass.

The real gold nugget of dishes is the spun aluminum. Even though they are one piece they have a stout rolled edge and aren’t as prone to warp unless they were dropped. Their efficiency is superb. Anytime you have an opportunity to snag one of these treasures you better grab it.

I prefer medium or shallow dishes over deep dishes because of their efficiency. A deep dish is harder to illuminate. They were popular in the 1980's because the feedhorn was further down toward the center of the dish, and it helped to shield it from the terrestrial interference from Ma Bell.

There are two basic styles of feed supports used on BUDS…monopod and “milk stool”. The milk stool feed can be a 3 legged (tripod) or 4 legged (quad pod), while the monopod has a single arm coming out of the center of the dish. The milk stool feed is much more desirable than the monopod for several reasons. The feed must be perfectly centered for proper illumination, and as well, the feed opening needs to face dead center of the dish. It’s sometimes hard to bend or force a monopod to hold the feed in the proper position. A guy wire kit is essential for a monopod feed, not only to move the feed into the correct position, but to keep the feed from bouncing in the wind because of the weight of all the electronics on the end of the arm. Some monopod supports were substantial enough to prevent this, but are rare. The milk stool supports were usually machined to put the feed in the correct position in front of the dish. But if slight adjustments are needed, it’s easy to use some shims such as small washers to make the geometry correct. There is a third kind of feed design, called a “cassegrain” feed, which a second reflector is held in front of the dish, and the signal is reflected down a tube to the rear of the dish, where the feed and amplifier are located. This kind of feed structure is very rare.

In the early days of satellite TV, we weren’t interested in much of anything east of 70 degrees west. But today there are many satellites of interest beyond that boundary. Horizon to Horizon mounts are desirable to have, but are expensive. Polar mounts with linear actuators are the norm. Some people will use 2 different dishes, one for the western sky and one for the eastern sky, and mount the motor on opposite sides. There are 3 angles to adjust on a polar mount. Azimuth and elevation are very well known, but there is a third angle called “declination”, or “offset” angle. The offset where I live is 5.8 degrees, and will be different at different latitudes. Some mounts just had multiple holes on the top swivel bolt, so you had 3 offset choices…2.5, 5, and 7.5 degrees. You just picked the hole closest to your calculated offset angle. Better dishes had a fine adjustment of the offset angle, again located at the top swivel bolt.

I recommend a complete disassembly of a used dish before putting it on the pole, and here are some basic guidelines. If you can afford it, replace the hardware with stainless steel. Grease all moving parts of the mount. If you must repaint, use enamel, and never use a gloss or metallic based paint on the dish surface. Disassemble the reflector, and swap a set of opposite panels so that no joint that was previously mated will be mated again. On a 4 piece dish, swap 2 with 4, and on an 8 piece swap 2 with 6 and 4 with 8. This will help curb any rim warpage. Always reassemble the panels on a flat surface such as a paved driveway or parking lot. Put ALL reflector bolts in finger tight. Tighten the bolts in sequence, beginning with the rim bolts and work your way around in a spiral and finish with the centermost bolts. Avoid letting the dish stand on its rim, as this can distort the shape you worked so hard to maintain. You can use a hammer and block of wood to gently tap dings out of mesh panels. Know the manufacturers stated focal point of your dish, and measure to assure that the focal point is 1/8 - 1/4 inch inside of the throat of the feedhorn. Make sure the feedhorn is centered in the dish and pointing at the center plate.

I am going to voice an opinion here so just take this as an editorial comment. Avoid using a BUD for KU reception unless absolutely necessary. BUDs are just not designed for KU reception...they are a compromise. Even with tight mesh they are not efficient. Offset dishes work much better for KU reception, as they usually use a reflecting surface similar to screen door wire. The only exception to this is if you are using a spun aluminum dish such as a Birdview or DH. These are great performers for KU, as there is no loss of signal through any mesh holes.

I hope this will help people to choose wisely among the thousands of dishes available from people who desire to just get the thing out of their yard. There are some gems out there, as well as some trash. A little information will make your C band dish selection pay dividends in performance both now and in the future.

[tigert422]

on my c-band i have the autoroll chip V4.9. Does anyone have the latest codes for this chip I get the picture but no sound. on G5 channel 23 for A & E I have listed the following codes
80EE 6F06 DBED 45 AEB9 29

As you can see they only take 20 codes for this chip. Thanks in advance for your help. Have a Great Day!!

[Crow 492]

Latest VC2 Seed Keys

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Updated on 4-2-05

Encoded seeds list for the 602 & 654 Autoroll SID CID


F4-03 NICK-E F657 23DD 17EA 61C0 9A26 A0 86
F4-17 MTV-E A7EE B281 C592 5316 B9B8 A0 86 new 4-2-05
F4-21 DISC-E 1462 633F 4147 65F2 9B71 A0 86
F4-23 VH-1 2F97 8C0B 8B62 74DC A764 A0 86 new 07-15-04


G1-01 AMC 6499 3958 7B2A 2350 FA64 A0 86
G1-19 CINE-W D418 A5C6 7CB5 09E0 EA6F A0 12 new 11-21-03
G1-21 USA-W 873F B192 439F E67B B537 A0 4B new 2-10-05

F3-02 TLC 2BA3 800C 1B80 5F8F 6548 B6 99 new 3-24-05
F3-12 HIST-E A151 6427 4196 959B 2B73 A0 86
F3-13 TWC 232A D345 F236 FF39 135D A0 86 new 1-22-05
F3-21 COMEDY 7873 A461 12A2 09A0 3266 A0 14 New 11-18-04



G5-05 CNN A3FF 4ADF 575B 3240 3383 A0 86
G5-06 TBS 9F10 7E0A 907C 39C8 4173 A0 86 new 12-10-02
G5-07 WGN BB98 21F2 9721 94F5 12A3 A0 30
G5-09 ESPN 1FB8 5296 72FA 27F7 7CF2 E7 40
G5-11 FAMILY 7DA1 0C68 340F 0140 4281 A0 86
G5-14 ESPN-2 FF6F 1E74 3A1E A0F7 6EF3 E7 9B
G5-17 TNT 9B65 DCE0 E4DE C06D C728 A0 86 new 11-3-04
G5-19 USA-E E861 C8FE F827 C156 B8C3 A0 4A
G5-22 HLN 22E6 9E58 9C61 F85E DB88 E3 39
G5-23 A&E 80EE 6F06 DBED 45AE B929 A0 86
G5-24 SHOW-E 6754 D84B 45CD 5907 F4B3 A0 86


G0-15 SHOW-W 5F1D F676 7029 9E42 63EF A0 86
G0-17 CMT 802A 7006 6771 B304 0AE7 A0 86 new 2-20-03
G0-18 TMC 5F9F D776 F085 3FEB B56B A6 86
G0-19 SPIKE 7ECB 95F8 C689 F103 17E4 A0 86 new 03-09-04

G7-14 IFC 42F9 457A 4476 3451 FA84 A0 86

W3-09 WPIX C6E3 3F83 9A33 8725 FA2D A0 86 new 6-30-04
W3-19 WKRN-TV 15D9 526F 35A6 D91E 8F3E A0 6D new 01-02-04
W3-23 WSEE-CBS BC8B DEC9 418D C382 C928 A0 34

[Frank6926]

Hey Tigert. I am not familiar with your chip designation. I have had a Wizard chip, a 602 and a 654. Do you have a black modual?? Are you saying that you cannot enter the last 4 digits? eg. A0 86? and are you looking for the seed keys or "Audio Codes"? I also have trouble with A&E and Showtime G5 23 and 24 until I unplug my redeiver for a few minutes. I think it has something to do with not having the transponder peeked. Do you IRC if so look for VC2. There are about 4 that I know of. Good luck Frank

[tigert422]

Hey Tigert. I am not familiar with your chip designation. I have had a Wizard chip, a 602 and a 654. Do you have a black modual?? Are you saying that you cannot enter the last 4 digits? eg. A0 86? and are you looking for the seed keys or "Audio Codes"? I also have trouble with A&E and Showtime G5 23 and 24 until I unplug my redeiver for a few minutes. I think it has something to do with not having the transponder peeked. Do you IRC if so look for VC2. There are about 4 that I know of. Good luck Frank Hey Frank I have the black module and have been reading crows info and on the inside is black epoxy on the circuit board. I was able to locate the u24 pin . Don't know about weather if it has a 4* or 5* . I use to take my module to a guy who would take it into his shop in the back and bring it back to me after he did what he did and just charge me a update fee, he has now passed away. The chip he use to take out consist of 18pins and on the top is a round glass window. I can only enter in 20 keys . When I go to setup it gives me a list to chose from 0 for diagnostics and #1 for enter codes from there it showing the satellite and channel to chose from and I chose the A& E because I was watching it but no sound

[Frank6926]

Ok you need to check 2 things. First there is a number on the back of the black modual. it will be on a sticker that has a bar code on it. A/N A018........ This will confirm you have an 018 modual or an 032 modual. If it is the 018 and you can see the chip you will be good to go. The epoxy may be covering the chip you are interested in. Now to determine the type of chip you have fire up the receiver and hit setup. At the top of the black screen should show the chip Discription "Wizard..., 6.02 Autoroll or like mine Autoroll (TM) V6.54. IF you havn't used it for a long time chances are it is not 654. If it is a Wizard you will have trouble finding codes, if it is a 602 or a 654 the codes are the same as long as you have the correct seeds. I think you have an older chip and the modual may need a modification. You would be better off buying a new Modual c/w a 6.54 chip in it. You can find these on Ebay sometimes or you could do a google for 018 C Band and see what you come up with. Again - do you know what irc is? there are a couple of groups that have some Cband stuff. Are you in Canada? I could steer you to another place. At least the guy I know isn't dead. Once you have determined what you have It will be easier to know what is next. Frank

[tigert422]

Hey Frank !! Greetings!! I have an old chip called AutoRoll Wizard Chip version 4.9 I ent to Galaxy 7 channel 1 I got prono and channel 7 I got xtrsy prono. Out of the 24 channels I got 7 in the clear, but no sound. If you had looked at my profile you would have seen I'm from Ohio. The bar code on my modula is blacked out with black magic marker. The guy used to take the chip out of the borad and take it into the back of his shop and updated the chip . The chip is removable. hen you remove it you only get the FTA Channels. When I put it back in you can get the premium channel but no sound. Quest I need an uptodate module with the latest chip that you've mentioned to me. Nevertheless I can see the picture but no audio. Thanks for your response. I pm crow but no response!! Thanks Frank Have a Great Day!!

[Frank6926]

Ya - you have a wizard chip, there are wizard codes still floting around but you would be better to change it to a 654 chip. Keep in mind that you still would not be able to get those premium channels with sound. I watch almost exclucively G5 and I can get TBS, Espn, Family WGN TNT USA A&E and Showtime. I still have to enter audio codes to get sound on them but it is all good. With a 654 chip you can get 28 transponders minimum with sound. But for example the only way you can get porno is with a VC2 Plus modual and a subscription. this holds true for other things like Starz. I think your modual should be OK to just pop out the wizard chip and put in the 654. I think there used to be a place called Pricefire that had chips for sale. try it. Frank

[kencal51]

Frank,

Are you letting the 6.54 take the hits on those channels you mentioned on a regular scheduled basis or are you getting the codes somewhere and downloading by computer or entering them manually?

Ken

[tigert422]

Thanks for all of the info Frank. The name you mentioned for me to look up apperantly is used by another firm which doesn't deal with the Bud. Last year I ordered a Chaparral Ku/C-band conbination feedhorn to replace the single c-band feedhorn but have yet to get it installed on our roof , due to this aneurysm I had on my head, slow recovery process. I wanted to do the job myself, but not ready yet. I used to have another 10 ' mesh on the ground that had the duel feedhorn and I loved it when the party was going on way back when, but lost that dish when the wife had the oval pool put in, lost my tool shed also. I'll just keep things as is for the present . My game plan was to use the Uniden receiver to move the Bud to the birds then switch over to the Lifetime Ultra receiver download the channels because the new Chaparral dual feedhorn is to be used for the Lifetime Ultra, per my conversation with the dealer who sold it to me out of LA. I would've been in business. That was before we lost PPV and whateverelse by the 31st of this month. Thanks again Frank and have a Great Day!!

[Frank6926]

For Ken - actually all of the above. It seems that my reed switch needs replacing and I will have to wait for the guy to come. Untill then I can get the chip to autoroll sometimes mainly on G0, 15, 18 and 19. It ususually picks up the codes and, will if I leave it on the transponder. Other than that I have to put the codes in and I download them and enter them maually. I am a little reluctant to reveal the site I get the codes from. The last time I mentioned a site I was using for a TV guide, the site dissapeared from the net within 2 weeks. I am in a unique situation where I can't get cable, so I have to do what I can. I could subscrive to BEV but I hate Bell Canada with a passion. There is a way to load them directly from my puter but I don't want to put too much into it. hope that answers your ???'s Frank

[Frank6926]

For tigert. I work for the Heart and Stroke Foundation here in Canada and I say - Way to go on beating that thing . Not too soon back at iy though. Listen to your body and it will usually tell you. Try to stay active though. I think I understand what you are doing and it is similar to what I will end up with except I have a 450i and will get a sidecar to get some digital. Do I understand that PPV has gone off your LIfetime Ultra??? That sucks. I almost went the FTA route but I think there is enough on Cband to keep me happy. It is a little aukward but thats OK it keeps the big guys off my neck. If I can (or in some cases) can't help let me know. Frank

[kencal51]

Thanks for the reply Frank, I too live where no cable is available and have had the BUD for about 21 years now. I recently changed my polarotor to add KU but have not had a lot of time to do much with the KU. I havent been able to get any KU channels on my analog receiver and not sure if I have the polarotor positioned just right for KU although the C band works fine. I just burned a copy of the 6.54 chip and updated my 018 module. I will keep searching for a site that has the codes. The D.N. has spoiled me and hate to have to work so hard to get TV.

Ken

[Frank6926]

For someone who can burn his own chip this is probably a stupid question but Do you have your system configured for a dual band LNB? I don't have KU yet but my instalation screen has a config setting. I too have been spoiled by the small dish - I started with DTV, Went to BEV (hacked) and tried to find Dish. You should ask tigert if he wants to buy a 654 from you. Wow you could even market it. hehehe. Where did you get the bin to program your chip. Wherever that was will probably have an Audio Code link. Frank

[tigert422]

For Frank!! My son took a magnifining glass and looked at the serial Number that was blanked out with a magiic marker and was able to make out that the unit I have is a 018 modula . He also believes that the chip is covered over with the epoxy. What I thought was the chip is the Erpom which the guy took out to update. And yes I would be willing to send my module to the guy you was talking too and pay for the postage both ways and have him update my modula. Have a Great Day Frank!!

[fucknutts]

Try Loading the FREE TO AIR ch list on to your receiver. See if that gives you your sound back.Hey,Crow, I have a echostar 5000 with a 654 chip..my problem is no sound on most channels..how can i get sound/( this model reciever doesn't have a serial port either..at least none that I can see..any ideas??

[fucknutts]

there is a mod that will input all the sound codes for all the ch. with one click all the code are down loaded to a computer and then sent to the module from the serial port that can be 50' or less away. makes it much betterdelco can you explain and possible make me smart on this procedure?/

[Crow 492]

Autoroll FAQ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an FAQ that has been posted on several sites. It was written for Autoroll 6.02 but most of the functions of Autoroll 6.54 are the same. Many thanks to the author of this FAQ

- 602 FAQ -

NOTICE:The following document is provided for informational and educational purposes only.
It is not the intention of this document to aid anyone in defrauding program providers.
The use of this information may be against the law in some countries. Check local and
federal laws regarding this issue. The illegal use of the information contained herein
is forbidden. The user assumes sole and all responsibility for its use.


1 Q. What is a VC2 ?

A. A Vc2 ( Video Cypher II ) is a decoder that is used to decode video and audio
for the C Band Di$h ( Big Di$h ).
It can be a stand alone decoder or a module that is located in your IRD
( Intergrated Reciever Decoder )


2 Q. What is the 602 Autoroll ?

A. The ARV602 ( Auto Roll Version 6.54 ) is a programmed EPROM that replaces the
stock U 30 that allows you to test the VC 2.
( Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory ) Intergrated Circuit Chip.


3 Q. What decoder board will the auto roll 602 work with ?

A. The 602 autoroll will work with a 010 , 018 , or 019 board.
It will also work on a 032 decoder board however extensive
modifications must be made.

4 Q. How can I tell what board I have ?

A. The 010 board was in a black cage with no epoxy on the circuit board.
The 018 board in a black cage had epoxy on the circuit board with a 4* or 5* u24.
The 019 board in a black cage had epoxy on the circuit board with a 5* u24 in a.
*NOTE* some 032 boards were also manufactured as a full board in black cages with
a 7* on the U24.
The 032 board as a rule of thumb was manufactured in a Grey cage and the circuit
board is half the size of all others.

5 Q. I have a black board with no epoxy but the majority of the chips inside are SQUARE?

A. There were Boards also manfactured in Canada "yes Canada" These boards were known as
Liberty Boards or Sun Boards, They were made to accept one type of chip and their
design is unlike the GI VC2 Boards,the SUN or Liberty Boards will NOT work with the
602 autoroll. They were made to be Programed via a computer.

6 Q. Can a 032 board accept the 602 autoroll ?

A. Yes but to be honest it is NOT worth it ! You would you need to replace some hard
to find IC chips . It is advisable to locate an older VC2 such as an 010 or an 018
instead of attempting to modify a 032 decoder board because of the cost and time
factor.


7 Q. OK I have a 010 or a 018 board what chip do I need to program a 602 autoroll ?

A. You will need a 27128, 27128A, 27C128, 27256, 27C256, 27C512, EPROM. To use the last 3,
modafications have to be made to the original ERPOM.RUN file.


8 Q. How can I program a EPROM myself ?

A. You will need to purchase or borrow a EPROM programmer that has the
capabilities to program a 27128, 27128A, 27C128, 27256, 27C256, 27C512, EPROM.
( Read documents provided with your programmer supplier on procedure )


9 Q. If I do not want to buy a programmer where can I get this chip programmed ?

A. You can either ask a local electronics shop or old Satellite dealer, or a local
ham radio operator if they have an Eprom programmer to do the job,
review the disclaimer above.


10 Q. What is a run Chip ?

A The run Chip is a programmed 27128, 27128A, 27C128, 27256, 27C256, 27C512, EPROM
that is used to test also know as the 602 Autoroll. ( In binary format )


11 Q. What is a loader Chip ?

A. A loader Chip is a programmed 27128 or 27128a eprom that erases and loads
information to prepare your VC2 for the 602 autoroll run chip.


12 Q. Do I need to get a loader chip programmed too.

A. If you have another chip you can burn a loader while you are at it.
However there is a loader built into the 602.


13 Q. How do I use the built-in 602 loader ?

A. After installing 602 in place of U30 in a (010 or 018 ) decoder board
Press Setup 555 with your remote. (see Setup555.jpg)
Move to location 678C , this can be done by entering 678C with remote.
You will notice the cursor move to a different location and change the 678C
location to 0000 and exit by pressing view on your remote.
Now press setup 8 and the VC2 should clear U19, U7 and U20.
You will see a responce on your TV screen ( write OK to U19, U7 and U20)


14 Q. How do I get letters using my remote ?

A. When entering codes you simply press cancel to enable the letter mode of 602.
You will see an arrow in place of the number being displayed and now you select
the letter you want.
Example : press cancel then 1 = A
press cancel then 2 = B
press cancel then 3 = C
press cancel then 4 = D
press cancel then 5 = E
press cancel then 6 = F


15 Q. I have the 602 installed how do I put in the codes ?

A. First of all you need to be on a VC2 channel.
It is best to be on the channel you are entering codes for this way you can test
if your codes that you entering are valid.
Now select the channel by pressing help and scroll through the menu by using arrow
keys on your remote menu and select the channel that your IRD is on.
Press setup and then 1 with your remote and select enter codes. (See Setup0.jpg)
You have 2 options current and next code select current .
You will see the format of the codes and now enter the codes exactly as in the Wiz file.
Remember that cancel enables letter mode and after entering the letter it
returns to number mode.

****FOR MORE INFO ON HOW TO ENTER CODES SEE #31 BELOW****


16 Q. How often do the codes change or roll ?

A Depending on the channel some codes change monthly, other codes change
every 4 hours.


17 Q. I put in the codes but still have no sound. What is wrong ?

A. You must enter the codes exactly the same as in the Wiz file, and if the codes are the
same, the code might be out of date.
Check and see by pressing setup 0 and the diagnostic screen will say need ( ??A0 )
and if the 2 ( ?? ) digits are different than the code, then the code is out of date.
Also be sure the graphics say the right channel because if you changed channel the 602
may have changed to a different channel.


18 Q. I have entered the codes correctly but 602 selects a different channel, why ?

A. The 602 has 3 different ways to search for codes. MID is the best and fastest mode.
To select MID press setup 70 and change search mode to MID.
(see Setup70.jpg)


19 Q. What is a hit ?

A. A hit is a burst of data that is used to send codes to your decoder board.
It may be a current code or a next code that is being sent
( Note these codes are not the seed key codes )


20 Q. What is a encyrpted seed key ?

A. A encrypted seed key is like a serial number that allows your decoder board
to accept hits or new codes.
Each channel has a different Seed Key with the exception of some Sports channels.


21 Q. I used to get hits on a channel but I am no longer getting hits what is wrong ?

A. You may have hits disabled therefore you will not receive hits.
To check this press Setup 70 and the menu will say either hits disabled or
enabled, if disabled change to enable. (see Setup70.jpg)
Sometimes channels enter into a do called FA [Fixed [free] Mode] of transmission
and will quit sending hits for awhile.
Another thing that could cause no hits is that the encrypted seeds has gone bad
& will no longer take hits.



22 Q. I found that the seed key is bad because it no longer takes a hit and I have
a replacement seed key for that channel how do I enter a new seed key ?

A. Press setup 911 and select the channel that the seed key is no longer valid.
Now replace the seed key using the same method as entering codes.
(see Setup911.jpg)
NOTE: Seed keys are not the codes in Wiz.txt file they can be found in 602seeds.txt

[Crow 492]

23 Q. Where do the Seed Keys come from ?

A. The answer is higly technical, past the scope of this FAQ, but the Seed Keys
are acquired by people who as a hobby are interested in testing the VC2.


24 Q. I do not have the current code stored, but it has next code stored, why am I not
getting sound ?

A. You must have the current code in order for you to test for sound.
You can either wait until the codes (roll / change) or enter the current code.



25 Q. I keep getting a spitting sound can I fix that ?

A. The spitting sound is your vc2 taking a hit and yes you can fix it by disabling hits.
To do this press setup 70 and disable hits.
(NOTE: you must change back to enable hits so the auto roll will get next code.)
This can be done after testing that channel and before the next code rolls.


26 Q. When I press Setup 0 what are all of the numbers telling me ?

A. Setup 0 will display the diagnostics screen. This helps you to diagnose your VC2.

Note the numbers under every word discription
(see setup0.jpg)

Channel is the channel identifer
Wait is the time interval for code bank searching
Clock is the data clock of your VC2 ( this number should be changing rapidly )
Active is the MID-SID/bank number that is currently selected
U7 is the U7 data error counter
Frame is the datastream frame buffer counter
Need is the MID [Month] and SID [Service ID] code you need to test for audio
04<05 is encrypted datastream audio data for even/odd month
Video is video status code if video is available, it is 83
Audio is your audio counter (should be 00 for good signal)
Stack is temporary memory address/data storage in LIFO fashion [Last in First out]


27 Q. Can you explain the options when I press Setup 70

A. Setup 70 will give you some advanced features for the 602 autoroll.

1. Hits Ena/Dsa = This toggle allow you to recieve update hits ( default is enable )
or you can shut off the hits feature so that no update hits
will be sent to your VC2.

2. View Ena/Dsa = enable Disable the View button channel ID graphics


3. Bad Hits = Sometimes bad hits [all 0 tier] are sent in the data
stream so ( default is blocked )

4. Write CID's = Channel Identifier writes to U 20
( default is off )

5. Search Mode = Mode that the 602 uses to search for codes
( MID is the default and recommended best mode )

6. Code Select = This is how you select the code
( default is Auto )

7. Next Display = Displays next code/channel in the graphics
( default is On )

8. Search Graphics = Displays Channel info Graphics while searching for code
( default is On )



28 Q. What does setup 70 right arrow options do ?

A. When pressing setup 70 and then the right arrow this allows you to select what
type of U24 and U7 you have.
This option is used mainly for 032 boards that have been modified.



29 Q. My VC2 board had a phaser chip in it and has a jumper wire do I need to remove
them so it will accept the 602 ?

A. Yes if you have a jumper from U5 (IC) pin 20 to Edge Card P 1 you must remove this
jumper for the 602 to function properly.


30 Q. I do not get video for the VC2 Plus Channels is there a way I can change this ?

A. Yes all you need to do is Press Setup and choose option 3 . If you are asked for a
password enter 0000 with your remote and change to Unlock VC2 +.
Under certain circumstances the password may be corrupted in Memory, in which case
you would need to do a Setup 555, goto loc 62B0, and enter 00 00 00 00
this will reset the PW to 0000
Alternatively if you entered 07 07 07 07 into the four locations starting at 62B0,
than the +video Unlock password would become 7777


31 Q. How do I enter the CODES?

A. 1. Go to the channel you want to watch, lets say G5-07 WGN.
2. Get your list of CODES from IRC or where ever.
3. HIT the HELP key on your remote, it will come up with a list of channels, what they will
be depends on who did your eprom, but will look something like this,

1: F3-12 HIST-EAST
2: F3-13 WEATHER
3: F3-21 COMEDY-E
4: G5-02 PLAYBOY
5: G5-05 CNN
6: G5-06 TBS
7: G5-07 WGN
8: G5-09 ESPN
<,>=MORE 1-8 SELECT

4. Use the left or right ARROW or EAST WEST key on your remote to scroll through the
pages to find the one with G5-07 WGN on it.
5. Using the above page you would then hit the number 7 on your remote.
6. You will get a screen that looks like this or mostly like this,

CAN'T TEST THIS CODE







(94) G5-07 WGN
TIME LEFT 32:29

7. Help may have to be hit several times before the help screen actually does
come up.
AR tries to locate the next possible channel with snd unless in manual
mode.
Users need to be aware of this.
Once the correct chnl has been chosen, the view key needs to be hit for
verification before proceeding to the next step.

8. Take note of the number in the ( ) it is very important!
9. Now do a SETUP 1 and you will get this screen,

BIGBEAR1(TM) V6.02

1: EDIT AUDIO CODES
2: VIEW AUDIO CODES
3 LOCKOUT 2+ VIDEO



PRESS 1 TO 3

10. Hit the #1 on your remote and you will get this screen,

EDIT AUDIO CODES

1: CURRENT CODE

2: NEXT CODE

PRESS 1 TO 3

11. Press the #1 key on your remote and you will see this screen,

G5-07 WGN

44=0000 0000 0000 00
0000 00

94=NEEDED

12. Now get out your list of CODES and find the one for G5-07 WGN, it will look like this,

CHAN. SERVICE CURRENT CODE NEXT CODE

G5-07 WGN 294C 6239 3D38 BB94 A0 (30) EB8B 48A1 D956 2795 A0 (30)

13. Now look at the 2 sets of numbers, CURRENT CODE, NEXT CODE, remember I told you
that the number in the ( ) was IMPORTANT?

14. Look at the codes now and find the one with the number that is in the ( ), which is the
same one that is on the #11 above as

94=NEEDED

this is the magic number

15. The CURRENT CODE will not always be under the CURRENT CODE column but may be under
the NEXT CODE column, what you are looking for is the last 2 numbers in the
4th group of 4 numbers,

G5-07 WGN 294C 6239 3D38 BB94 A0 (30) EB8B 48A1 D956 2795 A0 (30)
^^ ^^

16. As above it is in the CURRENT CODE column, but could very well have been in the NEXT CODE column,
Now that you know what the CORRECT CODE is you can enter it with your remote,

294C 6239 3D38 BB94 A0 30

17. You will notice now that you have the entered the code you have sound and your screen
will now look like this,

G5-07 WGN

44=294C 6239 3D38 BB
94 A0 30

94=NEEDED


18. Sound may not always come in after code is entered without going off channel
and back on.

19. See how the 94 is lined up with the 94=NEEDED?
This is the magic number to look for in the codes list for the channel that you are watching.

20. I hope this helps you to understand how to find and enter the codes!

[kencal51]

Does anybody know if ESPN-2 and Headline News have new seed keys? I have the 6.54 program in my unit with the seed keys listed above in the April list, but those two channels won't take the needed hits. Just curious if anybody else is having a problem getting sound on those?

Ken

[Frank6926]

K I'm back - I was looking at another forum but more action here. 654 chips on Ebay at $10 described under VCII or something. go get um. Espn2 and Headline news question. If you are talking about G5 9 or 14 I get them no prob. IF by headline news you mean G5 22 - I too have a Audio code issue however it has sub audio at 760 I think.

[fucknutts]

there is a mod that will input all the sound codes for all the ch. with one click all the code are down loaded to a computer and then sent to the module from the serial port that can be 50' or less away. makes it much better
Where can I get this program? If you don't want it public than please pm me with the info needed to find it..