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View Full Version : reality of n2 vs n1 not much has been changed


nismo
07-29-2005, 09:11 AM
i found this on other site :
This is a C&P, Nagraman is the writer.
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First off, this discussion is directed to the handful of real technical
experts out there. The layman is also welcome to read this thread for it
will give him a realistic picture of the new encryption technology, but
he should refrain from participating in this discussion if he has
nothing of technical merit to contribute. Otherwise, this thread will
degenerate into useless rambling.

I decided to post my findings because there is so much mis-information
out there. There has been much talk recently that Nagra 2 is an
impenetrable fortress that will never be compromised, much like the P4
card. At any rate, that is the prevailing view among the layman. Perhaps
this thread will enlighten many of you.

Anyone who has logged the Nagra 2 datastream and compared it to the
Nagra 1 datastream will be astonished - nothing much has changed! Some
of the commands have been renamed and slightly re-formatted. Why were
the commands re-named? Most likely so that a Nagra 1 card wouldn't get
confused with commands directed to the Nagra 2 card and vice-versa,
while both the Nagra 1 and 2 streams were active together.

Now, there are some commands that come down in plaintext and others that
are encrypted. The plaintext commands are trivial and can be easily
emulated for both Nagra 1 and 2 and we won't bother discussing them. The
encrypted commands are $04, $07 and $1C for Nagra 2. (The corresponding
ones for Nagra 1 are $00, $03 and $13).

We can completely ignore command $04 because it only provides updates to
the card that are not critical to generating video. This was the purpose
of the $00 command in Nagra 1 and as many of you know, when you put
blocker code on your Nagra 1 cards, you are simply ignoring command $00,
but you still get video!

So, that just leaves commands $07 and $1C. Since this is the heart of
the Nagra 2 encryption, it is quite astonishing that nobody has much to
say about these commands even when the demise of Nagra 1 is upon us.
Well, here is where the discussion gets more technical, so do try to
follow along.


Technical Discussion: Command $07

Well, it would help if we all knew what a command $07 looks like, so
here is a recent log of that command:


21 00 4D ; A0 CA 00 00 ;Standard Header
47 ;Instruction Length
07 ;Command
45 ;Command Data Length
01 01 ;System ID
86 00 08 ;ECM Type, Key Select
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Valid Hash (Signature)
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 1
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 2
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 3
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 4
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 5
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 6
xx xx xx xx xx xx xx xx ;Encrypted Packet 7
02 ;Expected Response Length
cs ;Checksum


And the standard response from the card:


12 00 04 ; 87 ;Standard Response Header
00 ;Response Code Length
90 00 ;SW1/SW2
53 ;Checksum


Well, for those of you who are familiar with Nagra 1, it looks exactly
the same as the $03 command except we have 7 encrypted packets instead
of 4. The first question we need to ask is why are there 3 more packets?
The answer, as you will see later on when we discuss the $1C command is
that 6 control words ?? are being sent as opposed to 2 in the Nagra 1
setup. So, we would expect 4 more encrypted packets over the original 4
in Nagra 1. But that would be a total of 8 packets and not 7? But
remember, with Nagra 1, there were some pad bytes that they are probably
now using for the extra control words. So 7 encrypted packets sounds
about right.

Now, what is the encryption being used? We can certainly rule out 64
byte RSA because there are only 56 bytes of data. So it has to be a
block cipher that operates on 8 bytes or 64 bits at a time. We can rule
out any block ciphers that operate on 16 bytes or 128 bits at a time
because we have 7 packets and not 8.

So what are the cipher candidates? DES, 3-DES, IDEA. There are other
candidates like Lucifer, Madryga, NewDES, FEAL, etc. The problem with
these latter ciphers is that they have either been proven unreliable or
simply aren't widely implemented on silicon.

I am hesitant to even include IDEA in the list because there has been no
rush by industry to adopt it as a replacement to DES and a commercial
license must be granted by the inventors for its use. IDEA also uses a
128 bit key and operates on 64 bits of data. Also, patents filed by
Kudelski indicate a 64 bit ECM key and not 128 bit.

Many in the testing community have suggested that 128 bit IDEA is being
used. Yet, they have not offered any proof of this. They are welcome to
substantiate their claims here.

This writer believes that DES or variation of DES such as 3-DES is being
used, similar to Nagra 1. Why would they change this encryption
algorithm when it was never compromised? I mean everyone was getting the
DES keys from card dumps and NOT from a genuine attack on the DES
algorithm. It would be like a shopowner installing a bigger lock on his
shop door after burglars broke in through the window...he would be
better off putting bars on the window instead.

Also, they had the DES crypto-processor in silicon already and my hunch
is that they simply built around the Nagra 1 card.

Put very simply: If you can't get the DES keys in a roundabout way, DES
is quite secure. And at this time, nobody can get the DES keys!

One way to settle this matter would be to perform a statistical power
analysis of both Nagra 1 and 2 chips while they are decrypting $03 and
$07 commands. If there 16 rounds of decryption, then it is DES. IF there
are 8 rounds, then IDEA. If there are 48 rounds, then 3-DES. These
patterns will be clear during the test. A secondary test, although less
conclusive would be a to simply time the execution of the $03 and $07
commands. IDEA takes only half the time to execute on average.

If anyone has more information about the block cipher or about command
$07, please feel free to post. We really can't go any further until we
know the block cipher with certainty.

But the $1C command is much more interesting and easier to break! Keep
reading...
Technical Discussion: Command $1C
This command is used to encrypt the control words and send them to the
IRD. It is the counterpart to the $13 command in Nagra 1. It is slightly
different in format to the $13 command, which led us to our observations
about the extra 3 packets in the $07 command.

Here is a log of the $1C command:

21 00 08 ; A0 CA 00 00 ;Standard Header
02 ;Instruction Length
1C ;Command
00 36 ;Response Length
cs ;Checksum

And the response from the Nagra 2 card


12 00 38 ; 9C 34 ;Standard Response Header
00 08 ;Control Select? Filler?
aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa ;Control Word 1a
bb bb bb bb bb bb bb bb ;COntrol Word 1b
cc cc cc cc cc cc cc cc ;Control Word 1c
00 08 ;Control Select? Filler?
AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA ;Control Word 2A
BB BB BB BB BB BB BB BB ;Control Word 2B
CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC ;Control Word 2C
90 00 ;SW1/SW2
cs ;Checksum


The response is exactly as expected from the Nagra 1 card except Control
Words 1b, 1c, 2B and 2C are new! Now, since the control words come down
in the $07 command, we are justfied in assuming the extra 3 packets in
the $07 command are simply these extra control words coming down. These
extra "control words" must be important or they would not be added to
the $07 payload!

What are these extra control words and why are they there? The Mpeg-2
stream only needs 2 control words to be descrambled. Perhaps the extra
"control words" are for future use on the Mpeg-4 stream. If there are
any experts on the Mpeg-4 digital format, please enlighten us on the use
of control words in Mpeg-4. As far as I know, there is an extra DEFAULT
control word, in addition to the ODD/EVEN control words used in Mpeg-2.

Although we are not entirely certain that these extra "control words"
are really control words, we shall call them by that name. We are
certain that 2 of the 6 are indeed control words, or otherwise, the
current MPEG-2 stream could not be descrambled.

Now, lets discuss the encryption used by $1C. First off, the encryption
used by Nagra 1 and command $13 was DES and the 64 bit key used for
encryption was the infamous IRD boxkey. Whatever the encryption for
command $1C, the IRD boxkey is still being used as anyone can confirm by
changing the IRD boxkey on a subbed Nagra 2 IRD. The result will be a
black screen. Furthermore, one can easily clone receivers and still use
a valid Nagra 2 card.

IDEA has been proposed as the new encryption schema here too, but no
proof has been given. Nobody has publicly disassembled the firmware and
reverse engineered the algorithm. If IDEA is not being used on the $07
command, it definitely not be used on a much less sensitive command like
$1C. Again, thos who claim IDEA is being used are welcome to offer
proof.

It is the opinion of this writer that DES or a variation of DES is being
used. I am led to believe this because I have not succeeded in finding
the S-box constants in any IRD TSOP dumps...leading me to believe that
DES decryption is being done by a dedicated crypto-processor inside the
IRD. A card swap does not mean any chips inside the IRD are
changing...so unless an IDEA chip already existed in all IRDs
(farfetched, but possible), they would have to implement IDEA in
software and that would give the inner workigs of the algorithm away.

If anyone knows where the S-Box constants are stored, please tell us and
that would settle this matter.

There has been some talk about a "secondary key" in some model IRDs.
This supposedly prevents receiver cloning as both the boxkey and
mysterious "secondary key" have to be known. Some have argued that this
supports the hypothesis of IDEA being used with a 16 byte key. However,
any secondary or tertiary keys may also be used in 3-DES or some
variant. The model IRDs I have examined do not seem to have any "extra"
keys.

The decryption process of the $1C command should not be too hard to
break, and I expect it to be broken first. It would be the first step
towards a married-sub solution.

More than likely, what is happening is the 6 "control words" are being
decrypted using DES and then combined using basic logic functions to
come up with the "valid" 2 control words that we were all used to with
Nagra 1.

For if they sent down only 2 control words in Nagra 2, we could compare
them with the known 2 control words being used by Nagra 1 and quickly
break the cipher. Hence, the most logical reason for 6 "control words"
is confusion.

Something to try: If anyone is running an emulation setup for Nagra 2,
they could try changing control words 1b, 1c, 1B, 1C or, any combination
thereof, before sending them to the IRD and see what difference it
makes. Are you still getting video?

So folks, that is a realistic view of Nagra 2...it is one of the
simplest Conditional Access systems around, but, when you don't have the
cipher keys, one of the most complex too!

Nagraman



well first of all the 4 year crack due to cpu capabilities is dumb certain windows encriptions have been broken by combining cpu power of many ppls instead of using just 1 cpu vs 100, 500 as many as you can get to contribute.
also why not create a registry of valid sub cards and beat n2 like people beat copywrite sharing leagl subs shiet will get out of hand fast

nismo
07-29-2005, 09:19 AM
i have also found many dumps of legit tiers if thats of any help to those of you than know coding
Data Type $08 Count = 20

Raw Data Tiers from Card
Tier #01 = 01011000000100000000000011434C214C210001002D8000FF
00FF00
Tier #02 = 01011000000300000000000011434C214C21025802948000FF
00FF00
Tier #03 = 0101000003B600000000000011434C214C2103B603D18000FF
00FF00
Tier #04 = 01011000009900000000000011434C214C2102EE80008000FF
00FF00
Tier #05 = 0101100000CF00000000000011434C214C21015E80008000FF
00FF00
Tier #06 = 01011000000700000000000011434C214C21089808AC8000FF
00FF00
Tier #07 = 01011000000A00000000000011434C214C2108FC0A828000FF
00FF00
Tier #08 = 01010000039B00000000000011434C214C2108FC0A828000FF
00FF00
Tier #09 = 01010000010E00000000000011434C214C21028E80008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0A = 01011000013600000000000011434C214C2100C8E0008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0B = 01011000014000000000000011434C214C2100D2E0008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0C = 01010000011000000000000011434C214C21029080008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0D = 01011000012C00000000000011434C214C2100CCF8008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0E = 01011000014A00000000000011434C214C2100D6C0008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0F = 01011000015600000000000011434C214C2100E680008000FF
00FF00
Tier #10 = 01011000015400000000000011434C214C2100E800FA8000FF
00FF00
Tier #11 = 0101100001A400000000000011434C214C2101A980008000FF
00FF00
Tier #12 = 0101100001B500000000000011434C214C2101C480008000FF
00FF00
Tier #13 = 01011000026C00000000000011434C214C21006400788000FF
00FF00
Tier #14 = 0101100001F200000000000011434C214C21033480008000FF
00FF00

Provider MinC MaxC Rights LV
-------- ---- ---- ------ --
Info #01 = DishNet 0001 002D 000001 00
Info #02 = DishNet 0258 0294 000003 00
Info #03 = DishNet 03B6 03D1 0003B6 00
Info #04 = DishNet 02EE 8000 000099 00
Info #05 = DishNet 015E 8000 0000CF 00
Info #06 = DishNet 0898 08AC 000007 00
Info #07 = DishNet 08FC 0A82 00000A 00
Info #08 = DishNet 08FC 0A82 00039B 00
Info #09 = DishNet 028E 8000 00010E 00
Info #0A = DishNet 00C8 E000 000136 00
Info #0B = DishNet 00D2 E000 000140 00
Info #0C = DishNet 0290 8000 000110 00
Info #0D = DishNet 00CC F800 00012C 00
Info #0E = DishNet 00D6 C000 00014A 00
Info #0F = DishNet 00E6 8000 000156 00
Info #10 = DishNet 00E8 00FA 000154 00
Info #11 = DishNet 01A9 8000 0001A4 00
Info #12 = DishNet 01C4 8000 0001B5 00
Info #13 = DishNet 0064 0078 00026C 00
Info #14 = DishNet 0334 8000 0001F2 00

Here you go, hope it helps.

Data Type $08 Count = 11

Raw Data Tiers from Card
Tier #01 = 09011000177400000000159E159E4C214C2100D201C98000FF
00FF00
Tier #02 = 09011000177500000000159E159E4C214C21027702DA8000FF
00FF00
Tier #03 = 09011000177600000000159E159E4C214C2101EA021C8000FF
00FF00
Tier #04 = 09010000177800000000159E159E4C214C210277028C8000FF
00FF00
Tier #05 = 09011000178800000000159E159E4C214C210AF00CB28000FF
00FF00
Tier #06 = 09011000178600000000159E159E4C214C21073A09928000FF
00FF00
Tier #07 = 09011000178400000000159E159E4C214C2105FA07078000FF
00FF00
Tier #08 = 09011000178E00000000159E159E4C214C210DAC100E8000FF
00FF00
Tier #09 = 09011000179600000000159E159E4C214C2114B415728000FF
00FF00
Tier #0A = 0901100017BE00000000159E159E4C214C2112F213838000FF
00FF00
Tier #0B = 0901100017BC00000000159E159E4C214C21125C12C08000FF
00FF00

Provider MinC MaxC Rights LV
-------- ---- ---- ------ --
Info #01 = Bev 00D2 01C9 001774 00
Info #02 = Bev 0277 02DA 001775 00
Info #03 = Bev 01EA 021C 001776 00
Info #04 = Bev 0277 028C 001778 00
Info #05 = Bev 0AF0 0CB2 001788 00
Info #06 = Bev 073A 0992 001786 00
Info #07 = Bev 05FA 0707 001784 00
Info #08 = Bev 0DAC 100E 00178E 00
Info #09 = Bev 14B4 1572 001796 00
Info #0A = Bev 12F2 1383 0017BE 00
Info #0B = Bev 125C 12C0 0017BC 00


Data Type $08 Count = 24

Raw Data Tiers from Card
Tier #01 = 09011000177500000000170C170C4C214C21027702DA8000FF
00FF00
Tier #02 = 09011000177400000000170C170C4C214C2100D201C98000FF
00FF00
Tier #03 = 09011000177600000000170C170C4C214C2101EA021C8000FF
00FF00
Tier #04 = 09010000177800000000170C170C4C214C210277028C8000FF
00FF00
Tier #05 = 0901100000DE00000000170C170C4C214C210DAC0E1A8000FF
00FF00
Tier #06 = 09010000119600000000170C170C4C214C210DAC0E1A8000FF
00FF00
Tier #07 = 0901000011B200000000170C170C4C214C210E0680008000FF
00FF00
Tier #08 = 0901100001A000000000170C170C4C214C210FA0100E8000FF
00FF00
Tier #09 = 090100000BF600000000170C170C4C214C210E0680008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0A = 0901000011B000000000170C170C4C214C210FA0100E8000FF
00FF00
Tier #0B = 09011000171200000000170C170C4C214C211069107A8000FF
00FF00
Tier #0C = 09011000171400000000170C170C4C214C21108190008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0D = 09011000171800000000170C170C4C214C21109AD4008000FF
00FF00
Tier #0E = 09011000171E00000000170C170C4C214C210A1F0A3C8000FF
00FF00
Tier #0F = 09011000171C00000000170C170C4C214C21099480008000FF
00FF00
Tier #10 = 09010000158A00000000170C170C4C214C21099580008000FF
00FF00
Tier #11 = 09011000178600000000170C170C4C214C21073A09928000FF
00FF00
Tier #12 = 09011000178800000000170C170C4C214C210AF00CB28000FF
00FF00
Tier #13 = 09011000179000000000170C170C4C214C21125C12D98000FF
00FF00
Tier #14 = 09011000179200000000170C170C4C214C21134213878000FF
00FF00
Tier #15 = 0901100017CA00000000170C170C4C214C2114B814C88000FF
00FF00
Tier #16 = 0901100017CC00000000170C170C4C214C21153B80008000FF
00FF00
Tier #17 = 09011000179400000000170C170C4C214C2112DA13248000FF
00FF00
Tier #18 = 09011000179E00000000170C170C4C214C21113011618000FF
00FF00

Provider MinC MaxC Rights LV
-------- ---- ---- ------ --
Info #01 = Bev 0277 02DA 001775 00
Info #02 = Bev 00D2 01C9 001774 00
Info #03 = Bev 01EA 021C 001776 00
Info #04 = Bev 0277 028C 001778 00
Info #05 = Bev 0DAC 0E1A 0000DE 00
Info #06 = Bev 0DAC 0E1A 001196 00
Info #07 = Bev 0E06 8000 0011B2 00
Info #08 = Bev 0FA0 100E 0001A0 00
Info #09 = Bev 0E06 8000 000BF6 00
Info #0A = Bev 0FA0 100E 0011B0 00
Info #0B = Bev 1069 107A 001712 00
Info #0C = Bev 1081 9000 001714 00
Info #0D = Bev 109A D400 001718 00
Info #0E = Bev 0A1F 0A3C 00171E 00
Info #0F = Bev 0994 8000 00171C 00
Info #10 = Bev 0995 8000 00158A 00
Info #11 = Bev 073A 0992 001786 00
Info #12 = Bev 0AF0 0CB2 001788 00
Info #13 = Bev 125C 12D9 001790 00
Info #14 = Bev 1342 1387 001792 00
Info #15 = Bev 14B8 14C8 0017CA 00
Info #16 = Bev 153B 8000 0017CC 00
Info #17 = Bev 12DA 1324 001794 00
Info #18 = Bev 1130 1161 00179E 00

as you can see they are n2 dumps but off bell site

vmod32
07-29-2005, 04:45 PM
I thought you said N2 was a waste of time. That your cable filter are the way to go..

tbelisle
07-29-2005, 05:09 PM
lol

tigerhack
07-29-2005, 05:59 PM
Nismo Great Info , We need more people Like you , Please stick around.

JT
07-29-2005, 06:45 PM
Nismo, that could have been a copy and paste from this site. Nagraman posted that here months ago. The advanced technical discussion forum is for just that. This hardly qualifies as a technical disussion.

dbDan
07-30-2005, 02:49 AM
i have also found many dumps of legit tiers if thats of any help to those of you than know coding ....

as you can see they are n2 dumps but off bell site
"know coding"?

I can see but they are not n2 dumps or even n2 tiers at all. "As you can see" if you look, they are showing expirations of the classic "4C21" which is in N1 and NOT in N2 at all. Sorry bud.