attacking the Pledge of

[Just4FunNC]

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9/22/05

Michael Newdow is at it again--attacking the Pledge of
Allegiance, and finding a judge to support his push to
rule it unconstitutional.

How could this happen?

Simply stated, the U.S. Supreme court issued a "non-ruling"
on the Pledge of Allegiance instead of issuing a final decision.

That left open the door, and Michael Newdow has returned.

Grassfire is urging Americans to take immediate action by
signing our petition urging our lawmakers to move to protect
the Pledge once and for all through the Pledge Protection
Act of 2005 (S. 1046).

Please click here and join me in signing this crucial
petition and have your petition delivered to the Supreme
Court and Congress:

http://www.grassfire.org/14/petition.asp?PID=9679509&NID=1

Sincerely,

Mr. Daniel B

PLEASE SIGN

[dRaNo]

I'm definitly signing this. Next thing you know they're going to want to take "in God we trust" off our money, and take God's name out of the constitution. This guy is from California, the same state that let O.J. and wacko jacko off.

[playme1979]

"Give onto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and give unto God what is Gods"
do u really think god cares if we say a pledge of allegiance to our countrys , i think not .
do u really think god cares if his name is on our money , he probaly prefers it wasn't.
and do u really think god cares if his name is in our constituition a document made by men for men

[busnut]

Maybe just return to the original version as written. The original does not name any country or god.

I pledge alligence to the flag and to the republic for which it stands.
One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I learned the pledge with "under god" in it and to this day still don't say under god.

[Trapofmind]

Weather or not God wants His name on our documents really isn't the issue.

The facts are: our country was founded by Christian men seeking among other things freedom to worship. It is an indisputable fact that God is a very large (no pun intended) part of our constitution and basis for our legal system.

The issue is that people are trying to rewrite American history without God and other people are not standing for it.

[OverEasy]

AMEN ! ! ! Trapofmind And GOD Bless the USA ! ! !

[smilingjack]

The facts are: our country was founded by Christian men seeking among other things freedom to worship.

Those very same men insisted seperation of church and state and did not include any "God" in their pledge some religious fanatics violating the constitutions restirction against it added it later.

I don't care either way but people, and courts should not mess with the dam laws and constitution so damn much

I pledge alligence to the flag and to the republic for which it stands.
One nation, indivisible, Under god, Jehova, budda, rama etc with liberty and justice for all.

Fucking add ons will be longer than the pledge.

[Matisse]

yea well..sooner or later people will catch on that God...any God..is a figment of mans' imagination convoluted by his fears and need to control others as well as his misunderstanding of science and evolution

where was God yesterday when 18,000 people died in the earthquake..or better yet..where was God when the majority of his so-called Catholic followers in churches across the US and world,were systematically molesting the children they were assigned to protect and role model too???

Darwin and Carl Sagan were right..when we die....thats its..lights out..no aftershow..no fookin' reward of 72 virgins like the Islamic nuts believe...shows over!

[Trapofmind]

The phrase: "under God" was added to the pledge, and I really have no opinion about the pledge.

My post was concerning the constitution, because it was mentioned. As I said, our country was founded by Christian men, it is a indisputable fact.

"Separation of church and state": is a nice catch phrase that is not found in our constitution nor is the idea, except that the state can't restrict your right to worship. It is rather sad that people (unknowingly I am sure) use the phrase as fact when it really is just atheistic propaganda.

If you choose not to believe in God, that of course is your freedom that he has given you (ironic). But if one truly looks at the incredibly intricate design of ourselves and our world, with an open mind, you can see that it was in fact designed.

The ironic thing is, people who reject religion (I do as well, if you understand the word) are usually looking through the clouded brainwashed eyes of the false religion of evolution.

Open your mind to the Truth. Take a look at our world and yourself. Let that cloud of programming from your "education" and Discovery channel fade away and think for yourself.

After your through flaming me (I can take it) check out this site if you are interested in learning some true science. http://www.answersingenesis.org/

[smilingjack]

There are guarentees that the church will not be able to influence the government, that is not to say the damn near eeveryone expects the people in government to be some kind of believer.

There are millions of widows and orphans that wished and wish now that everyone was a atheist or non-believer.

More people have died because of religion than from all other lusts for money and power combined.

Not even believers can agree, I see you quote the king James bible, not everyone does, the jewish say the bible ends with the old testament, the new testament is false. Have yo read the koran, the book of morman, the talmud. ?

They all say different things, they often disagree with each other, which is right ?, which is wrong ? Who is to say, not me, not you. Maybe the Egiptions are right and god is the sun. Maybe the (american) indians are right there are many Gods.

Very deep subject that will never be resolved.

Not a flame just the facts.

[vmod32]

Personally I’m not too fond of god written on my money or in the pledge, as I don't believe in 'god' and it should not be imposed on others in such manors. But I'm not going to bitch about it and try to get people to change it. I do believe in tradition and remembering were we came from. This is just silly…

[playme1979]

trapofmind u need to research our founding fathers , u will find out that most of the more famous founding fathers of this great country didnt believe in christianity they were deists and they had their reasons im sure.

First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. … It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service [forming the U.S. government] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses. …Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery… are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind”


Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams.
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, (July 16, 1814):
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."


James Madison

Letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise"


James Madison, introducing the Bill of Rights at the First Federal Congress, Congressional Register, June 8, 1789:
"[The] civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner or on any pretext infringed."


Ethan Allen

From Religion of the American Enlightenment:
“Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.”

Thomas Paine
"My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."


and now finally a list of founding fathers that WERE NOT CHRISTIANS

George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Benjamin Franklin
Ethan Allen
Thomas Paine
and there are so many more



if you would care to respond with the right wing rhetoric that is fine by me but give more proof of what u say other then uttering the same words your preacher said or your priest or president bush because if they had ever read the constitution then they would know that they lie anytime they say this country was founded on the christian religion , now i will give u that christians helped found this country but they didnt do it alone. Take those seven GREAT men out of the equation and we might not of ever won our independence. I will get off my soap box now


also The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy witch hunts.

[Marvh]

You posted:
"and now finally a list of founding fathers that WERE NOT CHRISTIANS

George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Benjamin Franklin
Ethan Allen
Thomas Paine
and there are so many more"


And this is how you liberals/athiests use deceipt and flat out lies to attempt to make your point. For example in the case of George Washington: Are you aware that he was a vestryman in the Pohick Church, that he was very instrumental in establishing Pohick Church, and that in fact he had reserved pews at 2 different churches?? Hardly the actions of an atheist!

A quote your type like to post as pertains to John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!!!"
Now how about the entire quote in context:
"Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell."
-- John Adams, quoted from Charles Francis Adams, ed., Works of John Adams (1856), vol. X, p. 254

Again, hardly sounds like the rants of a true atheist you would make him out to be.. You get the idea.. You can twist things to attemp to make them be what you would prefer, but If you must rant, at least leave all quotes in their complete form, and not pick and choose little bits and peices out of context...
And yes, you are correct, "There are SO MANY MORE!!!"

[playme1979]

no one ever said atheist but i guess thats what u think deists means lol

[Twostep]

Something has always puzzled me :

If a nonbeliever decides to believe in God and it turns out God doesn't exist, then he/she is no worse off than they were to begin with. If he or she decides to remain a nonbeliever and it turns out God DOES exist, then they are in major deep shit. So, what does one have to lose by believing in God, or the higher power or your choice ?

God teaches submission; it's taught throughout the Bible. The majority of nonbelievers choose to do so because they steadfastedly refuse to submit to anyone or anything. My old man used to be that way. "I answer to no one" was his lifelong creed. But as he became older and his wheeler-dealer days faded away, he realized that he had to answer to lots of folks, God included.

Remember, even the devil believes in God.

[scottymac]

Well, I posted this in another thread that I thought that Trapofmind would respond to, but here it goes again.

THE HIERARCHY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS PUBLISHED A TEACHING DOCUMENT INSTRUCTING THE FAITHFUL THAT SOME PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE NOT ACTUALLY TRUE

hXXp://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

What a bunch of crap. Some parts are true, some aren't? How can you decide?

I've decided that it's all bollocks.

And this is how you liberals/athiests use deceipt and flat out lies to attempt to make your point.

No, thats how you Christians trick people into believing your 'holy book'. Some parts are, but some part's aren't? Some parts are to be taken literally, some are just figurative? Give me a break!

[Marvh]

Well, I posted this in another thread that I thought that Trapofmind would respond to, but here it goes again.

THE HIERARCHY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS PUBLISHED A TEACHING DOCUMENT INSTRUCTING THE FAITHFUL THAT SOME PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE NOT ACTUALLY TRUE

hXXp://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

What a bunch of crap. Some parts are true, some aren't? How can you decide?

I've decided that it's all bollocks.

No, thats how you Christians trick people into believing your 'holy book'. Some parts are, but some part's aren't? Some parts are to be taken literally, some are just figurative? Give me a break!


Not bein a Catholic i tend not to try to keep up on what they are teaching or not, BUT, have you actually read the release of the church, (and keep in mind this article seems to say this came from uk church, not from Rome) , or are you basing everything on the Times interpretation of what was said in the actual document?
Just a hint, they may not be one and the same givens the Times track record on reporting on any church activities..
I haven't read either, so just asking if both sources give the same inferences..

[panjabibanda]

I think this is a good topic to talk about. I personally do not believe in god but I do always question so many people believe in it, what is it about god? Why is it that people have to look for god or higher power? I think when we can’t solver our problems or we can’t explain something we look upon God and I don’t have any problem with that what so ever. I think this attack on Pledge of Allegiance is wrong even thou I don’t believe in God. My question is, is it hurting anyone? Is it interfering with one’s beliefs? I don’t think it’s hurting anyone. Here in California, Sacramento some man is trying to abolish the 'under God' words from the Pledge. Do I have any problem with the words “under God” no I do not. It’s been like this for years and it did not hurt anyone so why this hatred toward God or Christianity. I do not comprehend these unnecessary and outrages agendas from non believers to the believers.
What is God’s definition?
My definition for God is that, it is a belief that one should do righteous things, one should help others and make honest living and one should care for the planet we live in and one should care for all living thing and one should not waste resources, one should respect others opinion right or wring, one should care for future, one should raise family, one should not take advantage of others I can keep going but you get the idea. Isn’t that what God is all about. There is one difference between my God and the God of those people who say “ believe in God” Those people have to fear God to do things right things because they have a fear in their mind that God will punish them for doing something wrong. Whereas I do not have fear but rather I believe in something that is to do the right thing. I should dwell on this more latter but have to do things now.

[Trapofmind]

Well, I posted this in another thread that I thought that Trapofmind would respond to, but here it goes again.

THE HIERARCHY OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS PUBLISHED A TEACHING DOCUMENT INSTRUCTING THE FAITHFUL THAT SOME PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE NOT ACTUALLY TRUE

I didn't respond because it seemed to be redundant to do so. I had already stated that Catholicism is not to be confused with Christianity. Not to knock Catholics necessarily, just to clarify that Catholicism is based on Christianity then goes further into its own extra Biblical religion.

Christians believe that the WHOLE Bible is perfect: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The statements I made were and are true.

But I realize that this thread is about the pledge and I have no opinion about the pledge so I've been quiet...as much as I can.

[scottymac]

...keep in mind this article seems to say this came from uk church, not from Rome...
...I haven't read either, so just asking if both sources give the same inferences...

Does it matter if it's from the UK church or Rome? In fact, it makes it even funnier since it comes down from the UK church and not the vatican.

If you can't get a consensus within the world wide umbrella of catholicism as to how the 'good book' is supposed to be interpreted, how can you possibly attempt to get non-catholics to believe a single word?

Interpreted, bah. Does it make sense that the supposed 'word of god' can be taken so many different ways? If you were a deity, wouldn't you want your subjects to know your words, completely with no if, ands or buts? Not open to interpretation?

Even catholics can't agree with themselves, ugh.

[scottymac]

Christians believe that the WHOLE Bible is perfect...

Boy, I can't begin to tell you how absolutely insane that statement is, but I will qualify it by pointing to a story very similar to the view that you and many others share.

May I present; Kissing Hank's Ass

hXXp://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php

[Marvh]

If you were a deity, wouldn't you want your subjects to know your words, completely with no if, ands or buts? Not open to interpretation?



Of course not. If it was that simple to understand, then they would know as much as me, and we just can't have that now can we?? :)

Sorry, just had to.. the devil made me do it...

[nextman]

"For those who have fought, Freedom has a taste the protected will never know"

[jimrod]

I thought in the beginning Britian sent their worst of the worst over here, and they were only preying the were not going to get killed over here? At least that the history I remember?