Since no-one else is going to say it...

[BullFrog]

Milli, at what point did you realize that the AVR-X guys and the Magic people where one in the same? I mean it was more then obvious once I got the AVR-X card in my hand and held it next to the Magic Card. Why when you got this card did you not warn everyone before they bought that this smelled like magician?

Have you done anything to protect the members this time from the same thing that happend the last time?

I would never have bought 3 of them if I knew it was the magician again. And make NO MISTAKE about it, this is the same work as the Magic people. Just look at the board layout, tracers on the board, and CPU's used.

Wonder if the old magic card can be converted to the new AVR-X? Was there really a AVR-X card needed, could the Magic Card be used as a AVR-X?


Please dont ignor this post Milli, please let us know what your thought are on this and at what point you realized what was goin on.

I bought only from you because I trusted you, I'm not sure thats the case anymore.
BullFrog

[JT]

Judging by your repeated posts on the matter, you don't trust Mili at all. Your just here to mouth off and cause problems as far as I can tell. Who cares who the product is coming from. What matters is whether or not it works. At this point, that's a legitimate concern. But that's not what your talking about. Instead, your repeatedly spouting conspiracy theory crap with the apparent intention of undermining the AVR-X. I don't know about you, but if the AVR-X works as good as the magic did, I'm going to be extremely happy with it. The first year of the MC was great. Never was there a more simple and easy to use form of testing. Clearly your one of the guys that felt $25 for six plus months of support was an atrocious inconvienence. Your on thin ice around here Bullfrog.

[clytnqnn]

I think BullFrog has a good point.

Why is this site so afraid of praise of the Syndrome and criticism of the AVR-X?

Are you afraid of the truth about the AVR-X?

No matter how much you threaten members here for voicing their opinions, the truth about the AVR-X is eventually going to get out.

[LeaveItToBeaver]

Hi ya - I could not tell any one what a Magic Card did or what they cost or even knew that there was some sort of subscription plan that you had to have until I read this post by JT. I has read the name in many a forum but because I was doing emu and Atmega I never ever read any further bout them or the people that came out with them.
Just wondering....From the get-go did the people that made this "Magic card" tell the buyers that therw ould be a $25.00 per six month membership fee for updates?
If thwey did then there should be zero gripes about anything as I see it. So what was the big deal then with this card called Magic card?

If they did not tell membership / updates were going to cost $ then I certainlu understand some one gripe since they could have gone elsewhere, or done nothing, or what ever.
Again keep in mind I have no idea about Magic Card or when it came to be or when it went down or any histoory on it all.
If this thread will aloow it please enlighten me on topic. If not allowed then don't. Just like to get some knowledge. But not a big deal.

I will add this though.
I have known SJ for some time from elsewhere. He gets to the point, he says is the way it is. No lies, no BS, no puches pulled by SJ.

[anotherjohndoe]

I think quite a few folks would have weighed more carefully their decision to buy this product with the knowledge that it had anything to do with that magician fellow. Of course, I have absouletly no idea if that is the case. However, it definately would have effected my decision to buy. Yes, the product worked, but magician was a flake and a liar. I doubt anyone could reasonably dispute that. $25 was not a big deal, but going back on your word in the spirit of greed is!

[RS422]

I think BullFrog has a good point.

Why is this site so afraid of praise of the Syndrome and criticism of the AVR-X?

Are you afraid of the truth about the AVR-X?

No matter how much you threaten members here for voicing their opinions, the truth about the AVR-X is eventually going to get out.

You're right ...Bullfrog got a few good point there ...and apparently he'd done his homework for the "cards" ..

It's funny that this is the only site that as soon as you mention something about the Syndrome card (not in a sale pitch way), it's ...BAM ...WHAM ...SLAM ...!!!

Surely the "truth" about the AVR-X card will eventually come out, but then what ...People probably won't throw these away b/c of the "truth" ....When the Magic $25 "deal" came out ...quite a few complaints...but nobody throws them out ..

It's pure speculation...but who knows ..the AVR-X might get "cloned" too ...

[tester45]

well I'm with bullfrog on this one he has some points alot of members here want to know. like he said @ start of post he will ask since no one else will.

Scare tatics or threats will not keep the truth from being known about the avr-x. I myself would like to know if this site has it's members best intrest in mind or is it just another site for "show me the bucks". Also is it wrong for members to post there opinion on matters here for fear of being banned?

End of rant along with end of my 2 cents.

[Cimba]

Frankly guys where it comes from is nobodys business but Mili's, I don't see the syndrome producers publicizing that info nor would any dealer with a brain. When the AVR was put out it was made clear what it was, what it would do, and that there were risks of a keyroll putting it down until the software came out.
If people fail to read or do so and go ahead anyway to buy then they have accepted the risks. Time will tell whether this will pan out, I hope and believe so; meanwhile wild speculation is detrimental to all members. Thanx.

[JT]

I don't know who the guy behind the AVR-X is. The AVR-X is a new device. There are a lot of new hurdles that need to be overcome. Not much more to it than that.

[anotherjohndoe]

this thread started in the AVR-X Discussions, due to the raw nature of the original post, I suppose I understand why someone felt the need to move it. However, it is a VALID AVR-X TOPIC. If there is any truth to the magician business, it should be disclosed to the customers up front.

[BullFrog]

I would like to answer each of your concerns...

Q) Judging by your repeated posts on the matter, you don't trust Mili at all. Your just here to mouth off and cause problems as far as I can tell.

A) No, I'm here as a member of this board asking questions that should help benifit everyone. I'm not trying to trash Milli, AVR-X, or anything, or anyone. But I have questions and concerns that I would like to post and get answered. I have NONE, ZERO, ZIP stake in any other testing method, and only visit one other site.



Q) Who cares who the product is coming from.

A) Alot of people care! After what happend with the magician I'm sure everyone would have alot more concerns about the future of AVR-X. Are we all suppose to forget what happend to MR Vacation and never came back?

Q) What matters is whether or not it works. At this point, that's a legitimate concern. But that's not what your talking about. Instead, your repeatedly spouting conspiracy theory crap with the apparent intention of undermining the AVR-X.


A) I'm not trying to undermine the card, I'm trying to understand why Milli would hide who the card is comming from. Money? Is it so a whole new card could be sold vs. just updating the Magic? I mean there's a whole lot more to be made from a whole new card then a $25 update. I dont know the answer, thats why I'm asking Milli. There is no doubt that this card came from the same people who made the Magic card. The exact same schematic design was used to make the AVR-X as the Magic. So Milli had to know at some point, I just want to know why instead of denying it was the magic people did he swear up and down that it was not them.


Q) Clearly your one of the guys that felt $25 for six plus months of support was an atrocious inconvienence.

No, I never had to pay the $25 cause I had just bought more cards, but I did not agree with how the whole thing was handeled.


S) Your on thin ice around here Bullfrog

A) I'm on thin ice cause I asked a couple hard hitting questions... WOW take my money and then ban me for speaking the truth, thats why people are doubting the site, cause everyone that asks these questions are immediatly banned or warned that they will be if they say anything again. Smells like cover up!


BullFrog

[smilingjack]

Milli, at what point did you realize that the AVR-X guys and the Magic people where one in the same? I mean it was more then obvious once I got the AVR-X card in my hand and held it next to the Magic Card. Why when you got this card did you not warn everyone before they bought that this smelled like magician?




That was a astute observation, just because they look the same they have to be made by the same people.

The syndrome looks like the NEO side by side, I have both of them too.

Ever hear the terms copycat, clone, not to mention they all have to look and be pretty close to the same size and design to fit into the IRD's

[Darkbob]

I am in no way bashing Mili or the AVR-X. I even liked my MC and PAID the Magician his $25 (before he buggered off with all our $$$).

But people are right. This card does look a lot like the MC. Tracer spaces, CPU, hell.. even the font and card color all look a lot like the MC.

Could be coincidence. I suspect this card is manufactured in Montreal or area and I think the MC may have been made there too. There are only going to be a small number of shops in that area that would risk making a testing device (cops, paying off the biker gangs, etc) which may be why the card looks the same.

Still, people make a good point. If Magician has his hand in here we should at the least be warned.

When the software comes out we will know more. If Magician is involved in the software creation it should be easy enough to tell when we compare the software to the MC software.

Lafs... and if no software ever comes out... then you KNOW it's Magician involved!

--DB

[hdfanatic]

It does not really matter if it is Magician or not. The support stinks just like the MC's support -- that's a fact. Maybe Mili should have waited to sell the units until there was software support. Maybe the people should have waited to buy until there was software support. I am glad that I can sit back and enjoy this drama and not be part of it this time (learnt my lesson with the MC desaster). FTA rules!!!

[smilingjack]

I think BullFrog has a good point.

Why is this site so afraid of praise of the Syndrome and criticism of the AVR-X?



Because we sell the AVR-X, this is a dealers site, not a un-sponsored site, every site goes out of ther way to support their sponsors. we don't have sponsors we are owned by the dealer.

Does that explain it,

if they would sell us syndrome's we would have a syndrone forum too. They won't so we don't and don't want to advertise for the competition, you don't see ads for K-Mart at Wal-Mart DO YOU

[anotherjohndoe]

I've been a customer of mili for a long time now. He's always been helpful, trustworthy, and gone above and beyond to make things right. The magic fiasco was a nightmare for him I'm sure, just as it was for his customers. It was definately a low point. I just find it hard to believe that he would enter into another venture with such a flake.

[BullFrog]

I never metioned the other card in any of my posts in this thread, yet it still got moved for no reason.

[smilingjack]

Hi ya - I could not tell any one what a Magic Card did or what they cost or even knew that there was some sort of subscription plan that you had to have until I read this post by JT. I has read the name in many a forum but because I was doing emu and Atmega I never ever read any further bout them or the people that came out with them.
Just wondering....From the get-go did the people that made this "Magic card" tell the buyers that therw ould be a $25.00 per six month membership fee for updates?

magic cards had free support until several places started selling "clones" of the cards for a cut rate and the inventor stopped making commission on sales. He tried to get some money out of selling the programming instead, you can't expect anyone to keep working for free


If thwey did then there should be zero gripes about anything as I see it. So what was the big deal then with this card called Magic card?

If they did not tell membership / updates were going to cost $ then I certainlu understand some one gripe since they could have gone elsewhere, or done nothing, or what ever.
Again keep in mind I have no idea about Magic Card or when it came to be or when it went down or any histoory on it all.
If this thread will aloow it please enlighten me on topic. If not allowed then don't. Just like to get some knowledge. But not a big deal.

I will add this though.
I have known SJ for some time from elsewhere. He gets to the point, he says is the way it is. No lies, no BS, no puches pulled by SJ.

There is you answer beaver, just like it was. Keep writing new code for the "Clones" for free or cut the clones out of the loop and make them write their own programs, people had a choice go with the REAL programs for $ 4 a month or go with the programs the cloners wrote for free.

[fm75028]

I agree - Bullfrog has some very good points. I have put off buying the AVR-X just for the fear that it was indeed another MC or A2 card with promises of free support And free Software.

I bought both the MC and the A2 card from Mili, and not to blame him for anything but being a business man, he is just passing along whatever information (or misinformation) he is being told by the supplier(s) of the cards. And that includes promises of free support and software for those cards. BTW i still have the MC but gave the A2 card away.

Now we have the AVR-X and peeps told 'Software is coming'. Sounded too familiar of a line to me so i waited and now i'm very glad i did. I feel for you Bullfrog and the other 1000 or so peeps that put out $164 for the AVR-X and now are in the waiting and testing mode. Good Luck and best wishes to all of them.

Lastly, in reading about the "other card" being put down and poo-poo'd on this site so much in many many threads, i have gone to register on several other sites for info. News is that it's being shipped and the testing world will have unbiased reports soon. When those reports come in and when the software is out for the AVR-X it will be a good time to decide where the money goes, perhaps one of each.

My .02 worth.

[BullFrog]

There is you answer beaver, just like it was. Keep writing new code for the "Clones" for free or cut the clones out of the loop and make them write their own programs, people had a choice go with the REAL programs for $ 4 a month or go with the programs the cloners wrote for free.

What really got everyone pissed was when they paid the $25 and he then stopped turning out the updates that made the card work, he just left and went on vacation and never came back to fix the card. We ended up relying on a hacked version that messed up a bunch of cards. (In other words when he found out he could not make any more money, he stopped working on the cards even though everyone had paid him to keep it going for 6 more months)

[YIH8JT]

That was a astute observation, just because they look the same they have to be made by the same people.

The syndrome looks like the NEO side by side, I have both of them too.

Ever hear the terms copycat, clone, not to mention they all have to look and be pretty close to the same size and design to fit into the IRD's


Well... it is a well known fact that the Syndrome we know and love was designed around Trinity's work. Stolen from her I might ad!
For those of you that do not know, Trinity designed the Neo as well.

[anotherjohndoe]

What really got everyone pissed was when they paid the $25 and he then stopped turning out the updates that made the card work, he just left and went on vacation and never came back to fix the card. We ended up relying on a hacked version that messed up a bunch of cards. (In other words when he found out he could not make any more money, he stopped working on the cards even though everyone had paid him to keep it going for 6 more months)



What he said!!!!

[BullFrog]

Originally Posted by smilingjack
That was a astute observation, just because they look the same they have to be made by the same people.


SJ, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but just look at the tracers comming off the resistors. Do you know the odds that two seperate people, and two seperate schematic drawing programs would make identical trace marks, I mean curves, bends, and everything are the exact same. The only way that could happen is if the same dwg files was used to create both. And as protective as the Magician was about his beloved MC, I'm sure he would not be sharing the dwg file with other people.



BullFrog

[smilingjack]

I don't know if anyone knows who trinity or magician or the developer of syndrome and AVR-X really is.

These people have a lot to lose if they are caught so they keep their real indentities secret from EVERYONE and all business is done with mail drops, P. O. Boxes, phoney names.

You know or should know that they are not just the average tester who works at a regular job like a supermarket, they are college professors, scientists and maybe even work for the companies and use inside information. This shit is not done by the local bartender people.

So just like you use throw away E-Mails and proxies and fake addresses and money orders they use the same shit and you can not expect them to all meet at the local coffee shop and know each other.

So who designs and codes them is always an unknown, hell the same person could be doing them all for all we know and laughing at us arguing over who did what. OR it could be a dozen different people and they are ALL LAUGHING at all this speculation, we will never know ! (unless of course they get caught and we read it in the newspaper)

[smilingjack]

Well... it is a well known fact that the Syndrome we know and love was designed around Trinity's work. Stolen from her I might ad!
For those of you that do not know, Trinity designed the Neo as well.


And how do we know that, the NEO had a bad name since it was mostly "vaporware" (copyrght M$)


Maybe she wanted the new card to have a "clean start" and claimed a rip off ?

[bobcon]

Oh Waaa Magician might have something to do with AVX :(
If it works like the MC and stays up till the end of N2 the way MC did for N1 who cares who makes it and yes I paid my extra $25 for support because I was to lazy to write my own program for the MC oops I tell lies I am too dumb as are most of the testers to write the program for the MC I also paid Mili for his blocker if you want free tv then you got to pay for it with either cash or brain power I have more of the former so that is what I use. If you want to trash this site or Mili please go else where It is not wanted by the supporters of this site
You are like school kids Mili done this Mili done that Mili Should have done something different grow up and get a life
Mili does his best to make this site the best so back off

[anotherjohndoe]

Oh Waaa Magician might have something to do with AVX :(
If it works like the MC and stays up till the end of N2 the way MC did for N1 who cares who makes it and yes I paid my extra $25 for support because I was to lazy to write my own program for the MC oops I tell lies I am too dumb as are most of the testers to write the program for the MC I also paid Mili for his blocker if you want free tv then you got to pay for it with either cash or brain power I have more of the former so that is what I use. If you want to trash this site or Mili please go else where It is not wanted by the supporters of this site
You are like school kids Mili done this Mili done that Mili Should have done something different grow up and get a life
Mili does his best to make this site the best so back off


without a doubt, you make at least one valid point in this post...

[fubr]

Hey tadpole Why you bitchin about the $25. That was then
If this cost $25 then bitch....
JT and SJ notice these guys are all new and all bitchin about magic dude?

WHY?

No it is not anyones business who made them or who is involved. WHy are you even entertaining them by responding..........................
HEll yeah kick em all they just trying to recreated the whole MCS BS because they missed out on it.
DO NOT LET THESE FUCKERS TAKE OVER HERE>. nip tit in the bud bud :)

[smilingjack]

Originally Posted by smilingjack
That was a astute observation, just because they look the same they have to be made by the same people.


SJ, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but just look at the tracers comming off the resistors. Do you know the odds that two seperate people, and two seperate schematic drawing programs would make identical trace marks, I mean curves, bends, and everything are the exact same. The only way that could happen is if the same dwg files was used to create both. And as protective as the Magician was about his beloved MC, I'm sure he would not be sharing the dwg file with other people.



BullFrog

The designer makes what is known in electronics as a 'breadboard" with parts hanging off it at all angles and sends it to one of the limited number of pirate manufacturers with the schematics (wiring diagrams) and asks for a quote to make the boards to fit into such and such a device.

The FACTORY decides the actual layout, placement and connections to the final board and if they have made other boards, which they all have, they use someting they have made before as a model for the new card.

They design it:

1. To be cheap to make to get the bid.

2. They make it the same as others so they can use their old stock of parts.

3. They make it the same as others so their people are familuar with them right away.


So yes I would say that the FACTORY that actually MADE the cards made other cards, maybe even the magic Cards.

[fubr]

and if you dont want your three tadpole I will take them off your hands. for a discount since you already touched them with your nasty hands..

[mili]

I would not know the Magician if he knocked on my front door. Same goes for AVR-X and the others. It is not like we hang out. Now how the fuck you propose I prove or get even a clue who is who?
Let me tell you a secret.
I don't ask questions and I don't pry. I am on teh need to know basis, so is AVR-X and so are you. Closed mouths catch no flies, if I don't know something I can't blurt shit out and if lets say teh developers want to know my customers' details or who else I work with I tell them to fuck off. This is not your favorite soap opera and the right to know bullshit that the media is so feverishly employing hurt people every day. Some things you got no right no know, the developers got no right to know I got no right to know soif you think otherwise fuck off and bug off.

mili

[smilingjack]

I never metioned the other card in any of my posts in this thread, yet it still got moved for no reason.


I did not move it

but it is policy to move any threads that are sure to be NON-TESTING related AND CONTREVERSAL here, in my opinion not enough are moved, but I follow policy.

[BullFrog]

OK, SJ, if you say so... If that what makes you sleep better at night, you just go on and belive what ya want.

[smilingjack]

Hey tadpole Why you bitchin about the $25. That was then
If this cost $25 then bitch....
JT and SJ notice these guys are all new and all bitchin about magic dude?

WHY?

No it is not anyones business who made them or who is involved. WHy are you even entertaining them by responding..........................
HEll yeah kick em all they just trying to recreated the whole MCS BS because they missed out on it.
DO NOT LET THESE FUCKERS TAKE OVER HERE>. nip tit in the bud bud :)


Yup, we noticed fubr, I don't think they missed out on the MCS shit, we 'inherited' a lot of MCS members when it closed, and it is them back again.

They can alays buy some FTA's or something and shut up about AVR-X but that would spoil their fun.

[mili]

Ok Bullfrog bye bye.

mili