Idiots Who Condone Other People

[mikepr]

HeY Milli have you not heard freedom of speech??Do you know how many articles are published pushing eveolution down are throats?? Now you say something like people like this shouldnt be allowed to breed?? Your worse then them. Maybe you shouldnt be allowed to post such comments . But her its freedom of speech isnt it pal.

[reb43]

I am wondering if Tthe Constitution of the USA controlls mili and those that live in other countries?

[mili]

Hehe PLEASE all you ID freaks show yourselves and I will gladly ban you all :)
This is MY world and my dictatorship.

milil

[tdavis80]

hmm. I find all of this facinating. So far we have multiple stories to believe, pick one (or none).


1. The bible - which implies all other religions are false
2. Other religious books - which are equally as right/wrong as the bible
3. Darwin / Evolution
4. Intelligent Design
5. External interference / seeding


I can usually cause quite a stir by asking the religious nuts to explain why all other religions must be false. If all religions are based on a book translated multiple times by people(s) that could barely read & write, why must we believe every single word as fact. For those who claim it should be 'paraphrased and interpreted' I ask why then do you belive any of it? If you took the 10 religious leaders of the world and sat them in the same room, at least 9 of them must be wrong (because they all claim they are the one and only). I claim that the possibility exists that 10 of them might be wrong.


The biggest question is about ID and Todd (actually the name rhymes with Todd). How about space aliens? If you believe it must be ID, then why must it be a mystical god-like creature? Could our landing on Mars and other planets cause life to start there (via unintentional interference) ? Are 'we' not the god to those worlds? Could life on earth have started through some visitation a LONG time ago?

It is unfortunate that believers of #1 are trying to push #4 as a backdoor into #1.


For the record, I can stomach Darwin without too much difficulty but I wonder about the possibility of planetary seeding via simple facts such asteriods/meteorites, not unlike the maple seeds that travel every year.

[t160hq]

Everybody has got it wrong. The only true message is from the Boomer Bible.

Us true believers are discourged from activly seeking converts.

Heaven is crowded enough already.

All joking aside. And yes I am joking! I highly recommend the Boomer Bible by R.F. Laird. For a well written comical perspective on this whole bible thing. Sure chilled me out when the faithful come knocking at the door to save my soul. Why it's been a whole year since I came to the door shotgun in hand as soon as I spot a bible in the visitor's hand. :-)

t160hq

[mili]

Panspermia IS a very likely theory. You need to read around SciAm and you will find a very recent article about the topic. My problem is with idiots who just cannot grasp how complex biochemistry and biology is immediately go back to bible thumping. Instead of getting an education they are scared to show off how DUMB they are and want to degrade everyone around them to that same level so they don't need to feel that dumb any more. Same stupid shit that is going on in Pakistan and Afghanistan in the "Madras" schools where the only thing they every study is the Koran. For fuck's sake anyone who says the Earth is 6000 years old and dyno bones are fakes ought to be locked up. These fucking morons take children into moseums as seen on CNN and tell them all this is fake by scientists and dynos (if real at all) lived 6000 years ago with Adam and Eve.
The real thing that is bothering me is that they are trying to force their idiocity on YOUR kids in public school now. Instead of doing their teachings alternatively in Sunday schools where they present their theories to the children and let the kids be aware of both approachs to teh same problem they are trying to eliminate the chance that your kids will learn the real and scientific way how humans evolved.
Do you see Darwinists trying to teach their views in Sunday schools? NO? Then get the fuck out of dayschools.
I am rarely riled up by stupidity but this CNN piece boiled my blood. These ID freaks are just as bad as the Muslim fundamentalist radicals. They ought to be locked ono the same island with sticks and stones to "convince" each other.

milil

[mili]

And another thing, IDiots are like cavemen who when seeing lightning and not understanding the damned thing thought it is something supertnatural and MUST be the work of a deity. Just cause you are too stupid to understand the process and the intricate inner workings of something it does not mean "Todd" is doing it. GET A FUCKING EDUCATION!

mili

[Twostep]

Do you see Darwinists trying to teach their views in Sunday schools?

No need for them to try. They just enlist the services of the ACLU, drag the issue before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco and eliminate the schools entirely. Problem solved.:eek:

[smilingjack]

I like my easy to understand theory of where we come from
"SHIT HAPPENS"
If it was all created in six days, was the dino's created as fossil bones or did adam and eve have to dodge them critters all their lives. hehehe
And how about the nasty old cavemen, was they created as fossils too ?
would think they would be chasing 'the perfect woman' around day and night to try that piece of tail.
And two people for a gene pool, means we are inbred as hell then ( actually impossible we would have died off long ago) no wonder there are so many dummies, and where did the yellows and blacks come from.......
And as for the ten commandments, who went around killing off ALL the people all the time, remember the ARK (another physical impossibility), hehehe the author that's who

[smilingjack]

The original "boses" or "tribal chiefs" evolved from the biggest and strongest to the smartest and became the chiefs "advisoers" and held most of the power.

The "religious leaders" actually ran things, like the witch doctors of africa and the medicine men of the american Indians. ET AL.

They wrote the first "Bibles" which were and you can see if you read closley, helped people with acceptable social rules and even what to eat ([Jewish: never eat pork, Muslim: never eat pork, this was because food was not cooked enough and people died from eating it.] [Eat fish every friday, this because fish contains necessary elements people did not get from eating goats all the time]

But it was re-written so often and things were added (fairy tales) and frequently subtracted to suit different leaders, tribes, or situations, it went from being a pamphlet to a telephone directory, and became several different, conflicting versions in the process.

There is a time to put away childish things and become adults, we have never done that because of the promise of life eternal and no one wants to die.

They all want to live forever, right Sarge....

[fubr]

your all wrong

Damn I wished I had time to explain Adam and eve the dino's the flood , how the water surounded the earth till the flood and how the dino's was 1000 year old reptiles.
And the inbread thing to.

The bible makes perfect scientific sense but it is not a jack and jill book. You have to read it over the course of your life to understand it.
But yes all is answered in the Bible even Aliens..


Can I get a witness?

[Trapofmind]

It's funny that you guys get all riled up as soon as someone dares challenge your false religious system of evolution. The most interesting part is that you don't know it is a religion, taught in schools and held with passion by those who believe what they are taught by blind faith without actual evidence.

The odds are FAR greater that a tornado could go through a junkyard and assemble a working 747 then one part of our complex system was formed by chance. Yet we see the brainwashed swallowing hook line and sinker.

For the record, I didn't see the piece on CNN that has everyone all stirred up so I can't "condone" it or dispute it. I'm only giving the other side to this seemingly one sided rant.

[fubr]

There may be a greater spiritual entity but we'll never know. But belief in a God is totally different than belief in religion, religion was invented to take advantage of belief in a God. .
yes religon is for people scared to go to hell. Belief is for people who want to.

[mili]

If evolution is a religion how come it has a logical easy to follow with your own eyes phisycal al prfofs every step of the way? If is religion for only those of you who are too lazy to get an education and go in DEEP how exactly mutation on the cellular level works, how changes in outside stimuly will result in natural diversification and in elimination of those who cannot adapt and in general what the biochemical processes involved are. It is no religion it is just not easy to understand especially if you got no ability to learn.
As opposed to bible thumping and "belief" evolution requires no beliefs in anything only to accept what you can GRAB with your hands and see and touch.
It is a hard fact that is well documented and proven by experiments that can be recreated over and over again in laboratories.
PLEASE recreate your genesis in a lab PLEASE.

mili

[bule666]

He he he, just like cockroaches that we are, when the truth of the light is shown upon us we turn around and flee towards the darkness. Because we love the darkness, thats our nature and we dont like no one to dictate our lustful, nature. We love the flesh, and the things of the flesh, tend to lean to the things of the flesh, and the things of the spirit, well, we can't even begin to imagine. Since, we are not of such a realm. So called christians who said they done things in Gods name, have set a bad example to everyone, (nonconverts,pagans,hethens,and testers). But, thats why, we must not fix our site on an earthly leader, because they will fail, and miss the mark. U see guys this is not about congress, nor radical christianism, nor fundamentalist egotistic, individuals. This is about something else more costly, he, he, he. Welcome to HELL, mother F$#Krs!

[smilingjack]

You are born
You live
You die

You are gone

There is no Heaven
There is no Hell
There is no re-incarnation

End of story .

[mili]

We all die. When we do we are gone. Our existance is washed away in time like tears in rain. It sucks. I hate it. I wish there was an afterlife. The fact that my consciousness will be gone and my "self" will vanish fills me with dread. I am sure you all are the same way it is natural to be afraid of death. Some of you decide to believe in some form of life after, that is fine for me, I am a skeptic but if it makes you live a better life, be a better person and gives you peace of mind so be it I am happy for you. Just don't try forcing your beliefes on MY children.

mili

[beanerspeed]

Hey everyone do you know were your eye's came from, read Darwin one bright Sunni day when we where crawling out of the water, the sun put some freckles on the top of what I guess is our head now, anyway those freckles turned into our eye's, any Christian that has studied the bible no's better to say any crap like that the earth is only 6000 years old, Evolution B.S, Do your research, the man who discovered D.N.A. mathematically has proof that now way it is random getting together crap, did you come from a ape, NOT ME, read Darwin and all the other crap like that and then tell me the bible sounds to far fetched, Read and get a good teacher to help you understand, its all there ! ! ! Can I get a witness

[mili]

Why not a pimple? ( I am sure whoever quoted Darwin saying a pimple evolved into eyes did not do his homework)
Eyes evolved way before life "invaded" the dry lands. Started out like light sensitive organs in the water that gave it's posessor an advantage over those who did not have any. you people think things just happened overnight. The Earth is 5 BILLION years old. Surface solidified about 4 billion years ago. Temperatures cooled to less than the boiling point of water 3.9 Billion years ago. Life (the most primitive) may not have appeared until like 4 Billion years ago.
Now 4 billion years is a long time for all that trial and error.
Now go and read some:
http://www.colossal-fossil-site.com/543-beginning/timeline2.htm

mili

[realfire]

no any christian does NOT know the world is only 6000 years old, for 1 how do you think bush got elected, they go by the book of genius, 6000 years old baby

can you believe this, a long time ago a cunt named eve had a snake talk her into giving an apple to a dickweed named adam, that's why were not in paradise NOW,
talk about holding a fucking grudge

getting worse in the deep south, parents are taking the kids out of school now, to feed the bullshit early

[smilingjack]

Darwin was working with what he had to work with back then.
Science has advanced since then and is advancing every day.
Some of us came from APES which have large brains,
some from Monkeys that don't, shame you did not evolve from a APE

[bule666]

You are born
You live
You die

You are gone

There is no Heaven
There is no Hell
There is no re-incarnation

End of story .

Not according to Einstein's E=mc2 , nothing just vanishes, matter, nor antimatter, nor conciousness. You, me, everyone are unique individuals, and one day will end up at a singular place. Eternally dead, (Hell) or in His presence.(Heaven) One day we may understand why God is so strict with us. Like thou shalt not lust the hott girl next door, man don't get me wrong I like ass. Shoot if it wasn't for ass none of us mfkrs be here, Can I get an Amen!
Humanity is so immature, and still a teenager, that likes to do as they please. And we dont like to do what our Ole Man, tells us..Instead we try to justify our own actions with religion, evolution, and all the others.

[fubr]

wasnt a real snake it was a word used to make a point.
actaully it was word for a kind of dragon.

I belive I am worthless peice of shit who cant make up my own mind so I need a God to save my sorry ass for free.
And I am fucking that up too!! lol

What ever happened to the creation network? Is it on skyangel now?

[skinerd]

Shit, I am converting to Muslim, blow myself and a shitload of others all to pieces so I can go to heaven and have 17 virgins to attend to me...........NO, that won't work those 17 would not be virgins after they atteneded to me very long..UNLESS after I use those up they get me 17 more..then 17 more.......etc.........can someone confirm this.....hate to waste a good bomb, unless I'm sure.

Muslims have an idea about heaven.....

Christians have an idea about heaven......

Gotta like the Muslims idea better.....

[bols2dawaLL]

actually fellas . who the fuck cares . live your life to the fullest , helping the less fortunate along the way , eat , drink and do Mary . It's all good .Whatever get's you through the day .

[JT]

I've got a challenge for you blind faith believers in intelligent design. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 'intelligent designer' wasn't a prangster child of an alien from another planet, there might be some credibility to the notion. A truely intelligent designer wouldn't have included designes like the platypus (or many Australian animals for that matter:p ), ebola, HIV, bubonic plague, ......

Fact is the human race DID evolve from apes. The fossil record is not incomlete when it comes to the intermediate stages. Over 98% of our DNA is identical to that of the great apes that still live today. Some of us are still evolving, and the believers in bunk like intelligent design are trying their damdest not to evolve and become more fit organisms in their environment. Problem is you religeous freaks blindly believing the mythology in the christian bible are too damn stupid to even put on a condom. We can only hope the intelligent designer beams himself back to earth as an adult and eliminates the un-evolved of our species. After four billion years of growing up the designer might get it right his second time around.

[Marvh]

And each and everyone of you missed the entire point of it all.. I don't give a shit which side of it you beleive or don't.. I was simply saying that a person who operates a business based on sales and service should not for his own personal gratification insult what is probably a majority of his customer base.. Just good common business sense...

And as far as Mili saying something to the effect, "if it happened, proove it" same goes for darwin and his theory.. Science after all is based upon observation.. Who in the hell was around to observe anything it is that he preaches??? And then there are all thjose little holes in his theory that no one can explain, but then that;s another subject....

[mili]

If you not gonna buy an AVR-X because of this then so be it. I will not hide my displeasure of the IDiots.

mili

[smilingjack]

Hey JT we forgot one thing

There is a species that we are more closley (some of us more than others I think)

Sus scrofa

Almost a perfect DNA match

hehehe

[badger6]

And each and everyone of you missed the entire point of it all.. I don't give a shit which side of it you beleive or don't.. I was simply saying that a person who operates a business based on sales and service should not for his own personal gratification insult what is probably a majority of his customer base.. Just good common business sense...

And as far as Mili saying something to the effect, "if it happened, proove it" same goes for darwin and his theory.. Science after all is based upon observation.. Who in the hell was around to observe anything it is that he preaches??? And then there are all thjose little holes in his theory that no one can explain, but then that;s another subject....

What the fuck does any of this got to do with business ??? I wouldn't buy my gas or anything else at the convienience store, in that case. The fact of the matter is that there is no proof of god. Just a book, and not even that good of a book at that. Why is it that religious people think that they have the right to "Spread the word" ??? No one wants to hear that shit everyday, and if they did, they would find it on their own.

I ask my wife why she brings religion into every discussion. She then tells me that she doesn't have a religion, She has a personal relationship with jesus christ. WTF ??? You barely have a personal relationship with your husband.

God should not come before the people that matter to you. That is the kind of hipocritical bullshit that is taking over this country. Religion says, FUCK YOU AND YOUR BELIEFS, ITS ALL ABOUT ME AND MY FAIRY TALE. Isn't religion just wonderful ??

[Twostep]

GENUINE Christians:

1) Don't try to cram their beliefs down others' throats, contrary to what athiests, the ACLU, the BBC and apparently, the majority of people on this forum would have you believe.

2) Aren't perfect.

3) Don't "thump bibles"

4) Aren't better than anyone else

5) Don't run amok trying to "save" everybody in sight

6) Have no quarrel with the sinner, just the sin.

7) Sin like everyone else.

8) Understand biology, chemistry, amino acids, planets, supernovae, and other things scientific just as well as your average agnostic or athiest.

9) Don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old.

10) Recognize and accept that there are Christian lunatics, just as with every other religion.

Some of you should sit down and talk to a genuine Christian sometime, ignore what the mainstream media and all the internet blogs tell you and stop being angry/scared of God.

In order to even begin to believe and accept God, you must submit to his teachings. That's the biggest stumbling block as to why you think God is worse than AIDS, Mili - you've never, and never will, submit to anyone or anything in your life. :)

[beanerspeed]

why were so many of are most famous scientist Chirstians? hey any body no of a guy named Marconie,Chiristian,because of him you are watching t.v, yea I know it was radio:D

[badger6]

Yea, if you can find one. So called "Genuine Christians" are very far and few between. The reason why is because the bible teaches to save the sinners. Sin is a made up thing, for it to be a sin, you have to believe it is a sin. If someone doesn't believe in god, there is no sin.

All religions were created by man to control man. Leaders of countrys have been using it for thousands of years to keep the masses under control. Just look at the fruitcake we have for a president. If good ole George W. wants to believe in god, satan, or the leprachauns, thats OK with me. I got no problem with it. I do however have a problem with people proclaiming their faith in public.

Religion is a personal thing and ought to stay personal. Want to save people and talk religion?? Go to church and brainwash eachother.

[RaceFan409]

I've read through this entire thread and want to be sure who is being called an Idiot. I'm a Christian, believe there's only one God, and that He sent his Son Jesus to save me and all mankind from an eternity in Hell. I screw up and make mistakes just like everyone else does. I'm not ashamed of this. I don't force my beliefs on anyone else and don't believe that anyone should try to force Christianity on someone who doesn't want it. But we'll be glad to share it with anyone who asks about it. Now am I being called an Idiot for believing that???

[Clowny]

There is only one thing, darwin and evolution doesn't explain the worlds oldest profession. Every religious book pretty much teaches the same basic values. Picking up a religion midlife is more like a cult. Don't tell me the crap that kids watch on tv has nothing to do with their behaviour, life is all about learning what you're taught. So lets get back to teaching how to test some satelite!!!

[badger6]

Sorry beanerspeed, although Marconi was credited with the first radio transmission. In fact Nikola Tesla invented the radio. In fact he also filed the patents on AC current or electricity, Not Thomas Edison. These are two examples that what is taught in schools and books is very inaccurate. Be very careful what and who you believe in, you might be taught wrong.

[Twostep]

It all depends upon what you choose to believe. If as a Christian you choose to follow the teachings of Christ, then it all makes sense - sin, salvation, all of it. If you think the words God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. are nothing but nonsense uttered from the mouths of power-hungry lunatics, then none of the above will even start to add up.

Let me throw this out there, for the hell of it. If one believes in God and it turns out he's a figment of some religious zealot's imagination, then one is no worse off than he was before he/she started. They're simply exalted apes that return to some chemical compound when their life is over. No harm, no foul.

If one does NOT believe in God, and it turns out he's the real deal - well then, one has officially shit in their post toasties once death closes their eyes for the last time.

So, what do you have to lose by considering Christianity?

For the life of me, I have never understood the fervent anger against Christians, in particular, the ones who, dare I say, choose to talk about it in public. Muslims can knock down buildings in NYC killing 3000 people - and while there was plenty of anger over 9/11, none of it centered around their religious teachings. Damn, I'm glad Pat Robertson wasn't behind the attacks - every church in America would have been torched in a week:eek:

[JT]

...Science after all is based upon observation.. Who in the hell was around to observe anything it is that he preaches??? And then there are all thjose little holes in his theory that no one can explain, but then that;s another subject....

Precisely what are the 'little holes' in the theory of evolution? The vast majority of respected scientists laugh at the notion of intelligent design/creationsim. You must have spent too much time at church camp. There is no debate what so ever in the scientific community about the realities of evolution. You can produce and prove evolution is real in a test tube and on a petri plate in a couple hours.

[badger6]

I have no fervent anger toward christians, any more than I do toward any other religion. The fact remains though, for the most part, all religions have the view that they are right and everone else is wrong. Why are christians right and budists wrong??? Why are muslins right and jewish wrong??? Get my point??? There are many religions and gods in this world, and no proof that any exist. Is there a God ??? Fuck I don't know. But who has the right to tell me that there is a god when they can't even prove the existance of god. Who has the right to tell me what a sin is and can't prove sin exists. The only one who could prove that god is real is god, and he don't seem too interested. Maybe cause he ain't there. Point made

BTW: Whats up with all these so called christians stealing satellite programing. Thou shalt not steal. Sounds fishy and hipocritical to me.

[JT]

...

Some of you should sit down and talk to a genuine Christian sometime, ignore what the mainstream media and all the internet blogs tell you and stop being angry/scared of God.
... you've never, and never will, submit to anyone or anything in your life. :)

I think we just heard from the kind of Christian we all can appreciate and respect. Well said twostep. This whole recent debate that's bubbled to the surface on this new version of creationism really has me up in arms....time to go bomb an abortion clinic I guess.:D :p

[Clowny]

If you believe in one mighty ruler, then you have to believe this ruler created christians, muslims, jews, buddhists, chinese, japanese, polish, italians, french, english, all races, all religions, all governments. Everyone seems to live as though north america was always on the map and anyone that migrates here quickly forgets where they came from. In 1905, only about 13% of house holds in the U.S. had bathtubs and nobody had satelite!!! LOL

[PJMan]

CAN'T we all just get along? The raving lunatics that believe that their way is the only way is what it is, lunacy! I was raised Catholic and believe that it was at least a good foundation for who I am. When my dad died twenty years ago, I had a very real experience three days after, he came to me in a dream, and told me not to worry that things will be OK, the warmth that I felt was that of a warm blue light, and that the end of time on this earth, is not the end! It was about two years after that, that my sister and I were talking, and I told her of my experience, she was in shock because she had the same dream, since then, I have talked with friends and family, and it seems that this is a very common occurrence! So I know, in my heart and mind, that there is something out there for all of us, I have talked with friends that were atheists, and other that were devout Christians, and they have came to me, after their death. I think that it was do to the fact of having an open mind. I do believe that if you do unto others, as you would have done to you, this world would be a much better place. I'm glad that this thread was going on, do to the fact that when you mention politics or religion, the debate goes on, and even the simple minds get disrespected, shame on those of us that take advantage of the weak! If it wasn't for religious organizations over the millenium, there wouldn't be wars, Bullshit, Power is the ultimate goal for every dictatorship, being the Husain's of the world, or the far left in this countries media, keep yourself informed, and make a rational decision, then at least your conscious will be free! As for myself, I am a believer in God, I have no clue what it is, but how could it be possible for these complex things to have happened, unless by some sort of guidance, and I am also a very conservative Libertarian that votes his conscious, which sucks, my candidates never get picked, seeee that's one of the problems of being raised catholic! Peace Out!

[BigPappi]

Clownv you are right God did create all those other people. any true believer would tell you that. It had something to do with a tower and God make the people speak diffrent languages. What it really comes down to was Jesus Christ the True Savior? I believe he was and There are many Diffrent Verses in the Bible written to prove it. THe Holy Bible is the Greatest Novel To ever have been written, And just think it was not just one Author but aproximately 35 diffrent people that wrote it. However they all back each other up. and think they was all from diffrent countries that means diffrent languages.......

[Marvh]

Sorry beanerspeed, although Marconi was credited with the first radio transmission. In fact Nikola Tesla invented the radio. In fact he also filed the patents on AC current or electricity, Not Thomas Edison. These are two examples that what is taught in schools and books is very inaccurate. Be very careful what and who you believe in, you might be taught wrong.


Actually Edison was DC current.. Westinghouse was credited with AC current...

[Clowny]

BTW: Whats up with all these so called christians stealing satellite programing. Thou shalt not steal. Sounds fishy and hipocritical to me.

I don't know about you but I paid for all the PHYSICAL HARDWARE, so I've actually spent my hard earned money on something I thought was worth buying. Or else I'd still be watching locals off the antenna.

[RaceFan409]

Bottom line is this---We were all given free-will to believe as we choose. It's all about FAITH. God never forced Himself on anyone and He won't come looking for you either. It's up to each individual to look for Him. It's all in the Bible. I can't prove He exists any other way than to read it and take Him at His word. I have to if I believe there's a life after this one to look forward to. Personally I care about people and what's going to happen to them when they die. It's not to put a feather in my cap, but because I would never want ANYONE to have to go through the torment that they will go through if what's in the Bible is true.

[Cimba]

I have deleted all my comments because I believe that this topic is personal and has no factual answer anyway. Have fun, tata.

[PJMan]

As I was saying earlier, do unto others, the airwaves are free.......... This has nothing to do with the thieves in this world, it has to do with the right to find a way, and a legit way, of finding happiness, and if is it too be finding an emotional rescue with satellite TV, so be it, there is nothing wrong to find a way for all of us to find the power of a creator, to use the gift of intelligence to the benefit humankind!

[Twostep]

Very well said, RaceFan409. Here's one Christian with some sense. Is anyone listening ?

And JT, thank you, I disagree with you on many things spiritual and political but admire your no-nonsense approach (sometimes you DO need to smile a little!:)) and I know you're serious whenever you speak.

I believe that God CREATED the universe and everything in it, and that creation EVOLVED from that point on. I've always been a common sense sort of person, mainstream in every respect, and that's about as mainstream is it gets. You want to hear what I have to say ? Fine, we'll talk for hours on end. No? Fine, your opinion, while different, is as valuable to you as mine is to me, and you should feel free to speak it as well.

Just remember - good or bad, right or wrong, you and I will ultimately benefit or pay for our thoughts, words and deeds. Be very careful how you choose them, and how you deal with others. Regardless of your stance on this subject, you owe respect to the other guy/gal. Not speaking to you directly, JT - I'm just generalizing.

Cut out the "Christian hypocrites stealing satellite signals" bullshit. We're all sinners. I shouldn't be pirating TV, and I know it. It is a conscious choice on my part, and I'll eventually have to deal with the effects of that choice, good or bad. Doesn't make me a non-Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.

I just need to hone my habits sometime before I pass on. ;)

[wasup]

I am a Christian (not a good one, just trying hard) and I believe modern science about the Earth being more than 6,000 years. I believe the Earth was inhabited by people and cities before Adam.
"God said to Adam REPLENISH" the Earth."

PS your God is who or what you serve.....what would that be? Yourself maybe.

[mili]

You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that the Earth was "created" 6000 years ago
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that the dynosaur bones are "made up" by scientists.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that there are gaps in the theory of evolution. There are no fucking gaps in there only in your education.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that what you hear in your church about the theory of evolution is true. NEWSBREAK!!! It is NOT in the Church's best interest that you learn the truth. They need IDiots who help them molest boys then keep it quiet and who pay their tidings so they can settle those lawsuits.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that there is such a thing as SIN. Society accepts certain behaviours and rejects others. Societies EVOLVED over the history of Man. It was all too well for Greeks to do it with boys and there was nothing to frown upon if you killed your slave. Societies change, rules change. Laws are made up by people and one law that makes sense today would have been laughed at 2000 years ago.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that YOUR GOD is the only true GOD and everyone who does not believe you ought to be either converted or killed.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that others know just as little or just as much and are just as educated or not as you are.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too that there is a scientist conspiracy and it is the work of the Devil.
You are an IDiot if you believe and want others to believe too if you think religion has ANY place in schools other than Sunday school and Bible classes (for those who feel the need for it)

I got a problem with Twostep's point of view, it is based upon making us FEAR.
Just to be 100% sure that you will not go to hell just in case there IS a God and heaven and hell you best belive in Jesus and God cause you won't get a second chance.
Instead of this:
Be the best person you can be, don't do to others what you don't want others do to you, help the weak and fight injustice and you will go to heaven if there is one. Now why does God and Jesus have to enter this? I tell you why. Because the moment you let God and Jesus enter this promise you put a Trojan horse in there through which one church or another can gain control and that is what any organized religion is trying to do. I say fuck that. I see many "Christians" around me and let me tell you boy. I am 100X the good person most of them assholes are without going to church and letting Todd dictate his scriptures to me. So spare me the saving of my soul, if I am headed to hell I will make the best of the situaton and will deal with the problem right there. I will not have any excuses and regrets. That is the path I chose and let the way I lived my life be my advocate. If I have to go to hell just cause I did not "let Jesus into my life" then Heaven is not the place I would wanna be anyway.

mili

[smilingjack]

RaceFan409 Online
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 66
I've read through this entire thread and want to be sure who is being called an Idiot. I'm a Christian, believe there's only one God, and that He sent his Son Jesus to save me and all mankind from an eternity in Hell.

And your Jewish next door neighbor and mllions more thing you are a idiot because there was no jesus and that the new testement is bullshit.




Clowny Offline
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3
If you believe in one mighty ruler, then you have to believe this ruler created christians, muslims, jews, buddhists, chinese, japanese, polish, italians, french, english, all races, all religions, all governments. Everyone seems to live as though north america was always on the map and anyone that migrates here quickly forgets where they came from. In 1905, only about 13% of house holds in the U.S. had bathtubs and nobody had satelite!!! LOL


BigPappi Offline
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: somewhere you've never been
Posts: 48
Clownv you are right God did create all those other people. any true believer would tell you that. It had something to do with a tower and God make the people speak diffrent languages.


And just when do he do this, read Genesis, he created Adam and used a spare rib to create Eve. Now it don't matter what color you think they were but they sure as hell weren't a mixture of stripes or spots red, white, yellow, brown, black etc.

Going on to old Noah, your God killed all the people on Earth by flood, Except Noah and His wife and children, again not more than 1 color person survived according to the Bible, so tell me where in the Bible (any edition, version or religion) does it say he created these other color people ?

The aliens from space makes more sense all the time if you can't get behing evelaution

BTW anybody ever look up what species is closer geniticly to man than the APE like I mentioned ?
hehehe

[Cid6.7]

your all wrong
Damn I wished I had time to explain Adam and eve the dino's the flood , how the water surounded the earth till the flood and how the dino's was 1000 year old reptiles.
And the inbread thing to.
The bible makes perfect scientific sense but it is not a jack and jill book. You have to read it over the course of your life to understand it.
But yes all is answered in the Bible even Aliens..
Can I get a witness?
LOL Now thats funny...Can I get a witness...The bible is exactly like jack & jill..A bedtime story that has evolved into what it is now.@ least theres proof dinosaurs existed...

[Stocko]

Theology and Psychology
Having a degree in Psychology, I find this thread on Theology interesting. From the tread starter, Mili has stated that he read an article which he found absurd and posted his opinion as that. This is fine as we all have grey matter and the right of freedom of speech and thought. Now what I find interesting is that Mili and others have expressed how angry he or she is about the ramming of these beliefs via, ramming it down our throats, brainwashing our kids, schools, media etc. So, isn't the act of posting the article and some colorful verbalizations in fact a means of the poster ramming his beliefs upon others also? Of course it is. This is commonly known as hypocrisy. A very thin line between debate, hypocrisy and good old conversation eh.
No flaming intended, just an observation.
Stocko

[smilingjack]

I got rid of the Jehovas witnesses banging on the door

I painted a inverted pentagram (sign of the Devil) on my mailbox, funny to watch them cross the street rather than walk past it.


Now how did the bible get written, writing was not invented until the greeks, hundreds, a thousand years later.
Even then only 1 person out of hundreds could read and write, and they were slaves who were not allowed religion.


I love Christians, so did the Lions, can you say tasty snacks

[wasup]

stop the Hizzel Mizzel!

[smilingjack]

Well we can tell almost everyone has something working to watch TV with, very few people are yelling for help and so everyone has time to indulge in idle conversation about the stupidest topics again.

Come on Charlie start the ECM, Key changes let's get the forum rolling again.

[mili]

Stocko you don't see me going to Sunday schools and tell them people that the Bible is a lie made up by priests.

mili

[Stocko]

Mili,


I have no reason to not believe you. I just simply made an observation. What you posted conveyed anger at what you read and now you are passing your thoughts on. Is this not what angered you in the first place, someone passing there thought to you via the article.


Amicably,

Stocko

[mili]

Whats pissing me off is the persistence of ignorance and their pigheadedness. I have 0 tolerance for stupidity. I myself am surprised how pissed I got watching that CNN piece. It does noe affect me or my children in the least but man..
The IDiots' behaviour and theories encompass all that I hate about organised religion.

mili

[Stocko]

Can't say that I don't agree with you on that one. You can run but you can't hide from people who will try to bullshit you into submission. May I extend an invitation to attend my next sermon, the Reverend Stocko of the Church of whatever is working at the moment.

Stocko:cool:

[Bandit5906]

I have no fervent anger toward christians, any more than I do toward any other religion. The fact remains though, for the most part, all religions have the view that they are right and everone else is wrong. Why are christians right and budists wrong??? Why are muslins right and jewish wrong??? Get my point??? There are many religions and gods in this world, and no proof that any exist. Is there a God ??? Fuck I don't know. But who has the right to tell me that there is a god when they can't even prove the existance of god. Who has the right to tell me what a sin is and can't prove sin exists. The only one who could prove that god is real is god, and he don't seem too interested. Maybe cause he ain't there. Point made

BTW: Whats up with all these so called christians stealing satellite programing. Thou shalt not steal. Sounds fishy and hipocritical to me.

DN & Dave = encrypeted sat signal = no advertising. That is what the law states. They play by their rules and we play by ours, IMAO!

[Bandit5906]

Whats pissing me off is the persistence of ignorance and their pigheadedness. I have 0 tolerance for stupidity. I myself am surprised how pissed I got watching that CNN piece. It does noe affect me or my children in the least but man..
The IDiots' behaviour and theories encompass all that I hate about organised religion.
mili

As nearly as I understand the ID theory it says that there may be a possibility that the cell was originally designed by some other form of intelligence. God is not mentioned anywhere, or even alluded too.

Personally Darwin doesn't do it for me. It does not explain the "beginning" and to think that "earth just happened" is a little more than I can absorbe.

My beliefs have nothing to do with God or religeon: it's just too complex for that to me, but then that is just my opinion.

[Trapofmind]

evolution requires no beliefs in anything only to accept what you can GRAB with your hands and see and touch.
It is a hard fact that is well documented and proven by experiments that can be recreated over and over again in laboratories.


This is a very common understanding amongst the evolutionary faithful, however it is completely false. No part of evolution can be proven or recreated in a lab. When asked why there has never been witnessed a beneficial mutation, a leading evolution scientist said it's because they only occur once every 60,000 years and we've been looking for 20.

Science is the study of the natural world, things you can touch, experiments you can prove with fact.

Listen to the anger flowing from everyone who holds the views brainwashed into them from public schools. Why get so upset at free thought? Why believe by blind faith in evidence that doesn't exist?

I have only refuted evolution up to this point (with some pretty heavy insults thrown at me from people I would have otherwise called friends in this forum) I haven't even offered an alternative, although one is assumed. I have been accused of thumping a Bible when I have not so much as mentioned it. I suppose since I am so accused:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even His everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
Rom 1:21 because that, knowing God, they glorified Him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasoning's, and their senseless heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

[toober]

I try to stay out of most religious discussions as I've not yet completely made my mind up. But, I do need to say that I don't believe any belief is complete. Whether it be creationism or evelution, no one can satisfy the question of the absolute beginning.

If God created the universe, (I have no problem believing that) who or what created God? God cannot be infinite as most would have you believe, he/she/it must have had a starting place.

As for evolution and the big bang crap. This is just stupid. Something, somewhere had to have started the process or it would have never been started. Think for a minute about what Newton said.

[Trapofmind]

If God created the universe, (I have no problem believing that) who or what created God? God cannot be infinite as most would have you believe, he/she/it must have had a starting place.

Very logical indeed, a question every scientifically minded free thinking person should come to. Here are your options: believe in eternal matter, that was never created but exists through big bangs, big crunches (what happens after gravity takes over and everything smashes back together again) spewed into other universes through white holes, whatever. No scientific theory has ever been formulated that explains the origin of....anything.

Before anything was, where did the first space speck come from? If someone wants to deny God (not that you are, but others) because He is to be eternal, why not object over eternal matter?

Everyone reading this thread needs to question that, really ponder: out of nothing came everything, who could do such a thing? You believe in something eternal, there are no other options, it's either a Creator or eternal matter.

[knarf]

I lean toward the Bible but there is no denying that alot of you sound like you came from monkeys- AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAAA

[Trapofmind]

I've read in a few posts here that Christians or IDiots don't believe in Dinosaurs or some variation on this theme.

Any person who's actually read their Bible knows that Bible clearly mentions dinosaurs thousands of years before they were "discovered" by mainstream science. Job 40:15-41:10 clearly describes a Sauropod type dinosaur with a tail like a cedar. It's funny that every large land animal alive today has a tiny whip like tail.

For those of you offended by the Bible, please don't read the green portion below.

Now behold behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass like an ox; see, now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the muscles of his belly. He hangs his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
His bones are like tubes of bronze; his bones are like bars of iron.
He is the first of the ways of God; his Maker brings near his sword.
For the mountains yield food for him, and all the beasts of the field play there.
He lies under the lotus, in the hiding place of the reed and the marsh.
The lotus trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook surround him.
Behold, though a flood presses, he does not run away; he feels safe even if Jordan swells up to his mouth.
Shall any take him before his eyes, or pierce through his nose with cords?
Can you draw out the leviathan with a hook, or hold down his tongue with a cord?
Can you put a reed rope into his nose, or pierce his jaw with a thorn?
Will he multiply pleas for help to you? Will he speak soft words to you?
Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant for ever?
Will you play with him as with a bird? Or will you bind him for your maidens?
Shall your companions bargain over him? Shall they divide him among the merchants?
Can you fill his skin with barbed irons, or his head with fishing spears?
Lay your hand on him, think of the battle; you will never do it again.
Behold, his hope has been made false; will not one be cast down at the sight of him? None is so fierce as to dare to stir him up; who then is able to stand before Me?

[Bandit5906]

"Instead, intelligent design theory is an effort to empirically detect whether the 'apparent design' in nature observed by biologists is genuine design (the product of an organizing intelligence) or is simply the product of chance and mechanical natural laws."

I don't see where God is mentioned, but the thoery of evolution requires a lot of "faith" and imagination!

[realfire]

a lot of faith & imagination??? I guy building a boat & getting 2 of each animals doesn't???

here's a good one a VIRGIN woman has a baby

sounds like some bullshit story a pregnant girl would make up to tell her father

[Twostep]

NEWSBREAK!!! It is NOT in the Church's best interest that you learn the truth. They need IDiots who help them molest boys then keep it quiet and who pay their tidings so they can settle those lawsuits.
Yes - I saw this newsbreak last Friday at the ACLU's and the BBC's websites, right on their front pages. :rolleyes:

This is just bullshit, in the 10th degree. Catholic priests are in the spotlight as of late, because of archaic doctrine that requires them to remain single and celebate in the interest of "purity". As if they Vatican actually thinks this will quell a man's sex drive.

To paint the entire Christian faith with such a statement is fucking astounding, to say the least. :eek:

[realfire]

lots of people in the deep south trully believe this, this is the reason why god let the planes hit the twin towers & the new orleans flood, by the way a gay parade was scheduled for that weekend in new orleans

GOD is in CONTROL of ALL THINGS - ALWAYS!
Sept. 11, 2001 AMERICA Began World War 3

WHY would a loving GOD let this happen?
REPENT!
That is what GOD REQUIRES because He is HOLY! JUST!

There is ONLY HOPE in REPENTING and RETURNING to GOD'S VALUES!
STOP IMMORALITY! STOP LAWS THAT FAVOR HOMOSEX!
STOP SLAUGHTERING BABIES IN THE WOMB!

GOD did NOT do this, but He allowed it because of our sins.
If we dont heed, and we are not! then His judgments will follow.

BEFORE the first of the 3 judgments of Revelation, GOD gave them an
opportunity, but they still did not REPENT! Therefore
judgments got worse and worse.

[indica]

The first thing that comes out of a athist's mouth when you put a gun to its temple it sreams out OH GOD DON'T LET ME DIE go figure eh if you dont belive me try it yourself!

[vmod32]

God job mili you brought out every religious freak in this place. You can't arguee with them they are as closed minded as they come. The need to belong and be accepted makes people do crazy things. You should close this before you have to ban half the membership, there are tooooooooo many fucken morons out there.

[linuxlad]

What is this CNN topic everyone is talking about?????

[realfire]

never use conservative & science in the same sentence

I have no problems with people worshipping a turd, what does bother me is when it effects others, friend of mine has a bar in a plaza for the last 12 years, a church moved in 7 months ago, guess which one has to close on sundays?

[Cid6.7]

GOD is in CONTROL of ALL THINGS - ALWAYS!
Sept. 11, 2001 AMERICA Began World War 3

WHY would a loving GOD let this happen?
Population Control :D

[Twostep]

Wonder why they didn't grandfather that bar's hours of operation - maybe your friend should bring that up before the city council, Realfire??

That kind of thinking is backwards nonsense, no less than telling the world that me and my family are pedophiles. Closing that bar on Sunday isn't going to persuade a nonbeliever to go to the neighboring church, or stop a beer drinker from returning on Monday for a drink. Symbolic bullshit, is all it is.

VMod, being a Christian doesn't automatically put one in the freak category. You wouldn't like me calling you a freak because of your athiest viewpoint, would you? If you ask, I'll go into great detail about what I believe, and none of it is freakish. If you don't, I'll think just as highly of you as always and wish you all the best...no freak here, and I speak for probably 95 percent of Christians out there. :)

[skinerd]

Everyone has to beilieve in something......

I believe I'll have another beer.......

[listener]

I am not well read on evolution and a novice at best when it comes to understanding the Bible and Gods teachings. I have studied biochemistry, chemistry, biology, physics, more math then you can shake a stick at, and work as a chemical engineer. I am an expert on none of these topics/subjects. In my experience I learn only from what I study and I have been made a fool by accepting the words of 'know it alls'. I challange anyone to stop asking questions of the Bible and pick one up to learn for yourself. I got tired of asking questions and receiving opinions as opposed to answers so I did just that. All questions I asked myself, I found answers for. Please do not pretend to be knowledgable about subjects that you have not studied. I see far too many opionions and bashing based this. We far too often over exemplify our own knowledge...please be inteligent enough to realize that human kind does not have the answers.
btw..I am a Christian and like any true Christian, I do not determine who is wrong in their beliefs. That is not for me to judge and for anyone to assume that I can or want to judge others needs to study some Christian text....again I suggest the bible.

respectfully,

listener

[greypower]

I don't normally get involved in religious discussions, but have to add my 2 cents worth here. As far as I'm concerned, everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. Whether it be one denomination or another, one religion or another, or whatever, I don't care. What sickens me is the amount of death, destruction and mayhem that has occurred on this planet in the name of organized religion. Millions of people have been tortured and/or killed simply because their choice of beliefs was different from someone else's. So everyone, feel free to believe whatever you want, just don't kill me because I don't agree with you. End of rant!

[Morpheux]

Man, that's why there's that sign in barbershops that ban discussing religion, Wow, 82 posts in 1 day, this beats the "Mili...I ordered my avr-x yesterday night and it hasn't arrived yet" record.

[realfire]

as a matter of fact skinard you hit it, bars name is beer 30

face it the jesus folks vote, if they rule in favor of the bar they have no job

here's the kick, it's a sports bar aka nfl sunday ticket payed commerical sub

[Cid6.7]

Hey Skinerd open MSN once in awhile Bro ;)

[Morpheux]

Hey, Alcoholics vote too (If we awake up on election day), and I believe we beat christians 5 to 1.

[mili]

As for evolution and the big bang crap. This is just stupid. Something, somewhere had to have started the process or it would have never been started. Think for a minute about what Newton said.

SOme of Newton's laws are so outdated it is not even funny. They simply don;t apply in some cases at all. You need to keep up with yoru reading:
http://www.sciam.com/search/index.cfm?QT=Q&SCC=Q&Q=big+bang

mili

[Bandit5906]

a lot of faith & imagination??? I guy building a boat & getting 2 of each animals doesn't???
here's a good one a VIRGIN woman has a baby
sounds like some bullshit story a pregnant girl would make up to tell her father

Back then, in order to protect their daughter's virginity it was a common practise to sew "it" shut, but the guys would JO and the seed would get in and (well you firgure the rest out).

Here's another issue though: Why do all of you seem so intolerant and so big with the name calling. What have "we" done to deserve that?

Rational discourse = Idodit, BS, F**King moron? I mean where is that coming from?

[JT]

This is a very common understanding amongst the evolutionary faithful, however it is completely false. No part of evolution can be proven or recreated in a lab. ..

Evolution is the scientifically accepted process of creation and the origin of species precisely because it can be proved and observed in a labratory setting, and it can be proven in many different ways. Here's one of the experiments I did myself in a college level microbiology class. First, we grew three different kinds of bacteria on three different petri plates. We used little paper disks soaked with an antibiotic to show that two of the bacteria strains were succeptable to the antibiotic and one was resistant. Bacteria have these things called f-plasmids that are special little mechanisms for exchanging genetic material. You can think of it as the bacterial version of sexual reproduction. So we have two succeptible strains and one resistant. We then grew all three bacteria strains on the same petri dish and gave them a chance to trade genetic material. We then seperated the three strains again and hit them with the antibiotic disks. Low and behold, all three strains were then resistant to that antibiotic. That my friend, is evolution. We forced the evolution of two new bacterial strains by subjecting it to an environmental constraint, and the bacteria adapted. The two strains of bacteria that got the new genetic material were now more fit to survive in an environment that contained the antibiotic we were subjecting it to. This is an oversimplified example of evolution, but it is evolution none the less. Evolution most certainly is reproducable in a lab. Saying it isn't is a rediculously ignorant statment.

I'll say it again, there is no debate what so ever amongst the scientific community regarding the legitimacy of evolution, and that evolution is resposible for the origin of new species. End of story. Saying that there are holes in the theory makes me wonder how our society can even exist with so many people blatantly ignoring hundreds of years of scientific testing. You guys that doubt the realities of evolution are like a horse that needs blinders so he doesn't get spooked by the world around him. There is so much evidence to support the theory of evolution it is just plain IDiotic to suggest a faith based notion is a more fit explanation for the origin of species.

[lightning0009]

Mushroom spores are the only thing that can survive a black hole.

[Bandit5906]

Evolution is the scientifically accepted process of creation and the origin of species precisely because it can be proved and observed in a labratory setting, and it can be proven in many different ways. Here's one of the experiments I did myself in a college level microbiology class. First, we grew three different kinds of bacteria on three different petri plates. We used little paper disks soaked with an antibiotic to show that two of the bacteria strains were succeptable to the antibiotic and one was resistant. Bacteria have these things called f-plasmids that are special little mechanisms for exchanging genetic material. You can think of it as the bacterial version of sexual reproduction. So we have two succeptible strains and one resistant. We then grew all three bacteria strains on the same petri dish and gave them a chance to trade genetic material. We then seperated the three strains again and hit them with the antibiotic disks. Low and behold, all three strains were then resistant to that antibiotic. That my friend, is evolution. We forced the evolution of two new bacterial strains by subjecting it to an environmental constraint, and the bacteria adapted. The two strains of bacteria that got the new genetic material were now more fit to survive in an environment that contained the antibiotic we were subjecting it to. This is an oversimplified example of evolution, but it is evolution none the less. Evolution most certainly is reproducable in a lab. Saying it isn't is a rediculously ignorant statment.
I'll say it again, there is no debate what so ever amongst the scientific community regarding the legitimacy of evolution, and that evolution is resposible for the origin of new species. End of story. Saying that there are holes in the theory makes me wonder how our society can even exist with so many people blatantly ignoring hundreds of years of scientific testing. You guys that doubt the realities of evolution are like a horse that needs blinders so he doesn't get spooked by the world around him. There is so much evidence to support the theory of evolution it is just plain IDiotic to suggest a faith based notion is a more fit explanation for the origin of species.

Is it?

[smilingjack]

We must be ordained on high to steal sat signals and decrypt them, Praise the Lord
.
And if stealing sat signals is in Gods plan, Praise God
.
And mili must be his instrument to make it possible, Praise Mili
.
.

[Bandit5906]

We must be ordained on high to steal sat signals and decrypt them, Praise the Lord
.
And if stealing sat signals is in Gods plan, Praise God
.
And mili must be his instrument to make it possible, Praise Mili
.
.

About time we got back on topic!

[indica]

A lot of big words thrown around this thread like MARMALADE

[Hack@d]

What I find funny is that very few of you know anything about either topic the Bible or Darwinism. Before spewing crap, know your facts.

The basic fact is the bible was never intended to be taken literally and, as any religious document, was put in place for society to have a set of rules to live by. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if you sleep with your neighbor’s wife he just may kill you. Both are bad things according to the bible. Also if you dig deeper you will find that all the religions of the world are based on two things morals and hygiene.

If you believe your god created the good book then good for you, believe in what you may; it is not my place to discourage that.

Darwinism for most people is easy to accept because in most cases can by proved scientifically but it is full of holes as well. Why is it full of holes? Because, humans in general, are too dumb to think beyond the circle. You will never grasp infinity if you think that there has to be an outside.

In my opinion this is the worst thread ever.

[Phottoman]

Hmmmm ... I remember something my Grand Dad taught me ... There are only two things to worry about on this Earth, you either going to be well, or you'll be sick.
If you are well, there is nothing for you to worry about, however if you are sick, there are two things to worry about, you'll either get better or worse.
If you get better, there is nothing for you to worry about, however if you get worse, there are two things for you to worry about, you'll get better or you'll get much worse.
If you get better there is nothing to worry about, however if you get much worse, there are two things for you to worry about, you'll live through it or you'll die.
Of course of you live through it, you have nothing to worry about, but if you die, you have two things to worry about, you'll get into "Heaven," or you'll be sent to hell.
If you get into "Heaven" you have nothing to worry about, HOWEVER, if you get send to hell, you'll be so damn busy saying "hello" to all your friends from Earth, you won't have time to worry.
And as a point, isn't it wonderful how many wars have been fought over what "God's" name is?

[badger6]

Actually Edison was DC current.. Westinghouse was credited with AC current...

You are technically correct, but my point was. It is taught in school and books that Edison is responsible for the electricity that we use today. Today AC current is the standard current used in this country. Tesla filed 7 patents in 1887 and they were bought by westinghouse. So to clear it up, tesla was credited with AC and became partners with westinghouse. Like I said, the details are not important, but what is important is the fact that if you ask any 6th-7th grader who Marconi and Edison were they could probably tell you. If you ask them who Tesla is, they would say a hard rock band. The school system is as corrupt as anything, they teach what they want to teach and leave out the real facts. Teaching religion in school is the same thing, they teach what they want you to know or believe and leave out the facts.

[badger6]

I don't know about you but I paid for all the PHYSICAL HARDWARE, so I've actually spent my hard earned money on something I thought was worth buying. Or else I'd still be watching locals off the antenna.

And to clear this one up !!! Your paid for hardware and only hardware, not dishnet programing. From a christian point of view, stealing is stealing. What would the law enforcement and judicial community think of your pirate actions??? Did you know that many of our laws including stealing stems from biblical rules??? They would find you guilty. I don't think that the excuse " but I did pay for the hardware, your honor", will get much sympathy from anyone. So anyone who claims to be a christian, and then steals is a hypocrite and doing a dishonor to the bible and honest christians.

[badger6]

Cut out the "Christian hypocrites stealing satellite signals" bullshit. We're all sinners. I shouldn't be pirating TV, and I know it. It is a conscious choice on my part, and I'll eventually have to deal with the effects of that choice, good or bad.
Doesn't make me a non-Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.

I just need to hone my habits sometime before I pass on. ;)

Well with that being said, I guess its OK for me to rape and murder people and use your excuse, "but we're all sinners", and all is OK. According to the bible, all sins are equal with the exception of the one unforgivable sin, not believing. Not trying to split hairs or argue with you. Someone that claims to have a god and religion, and knows the rules and still breaks them in an ongoing manner doesn't make much sense. Doesn't that show a general disrespect for god and that this person doesn't take his religion serious.

[ghost71799]

I get it now God is not real; because, Badger6 wants credit for passing the earth and the whole solar system out his ass.

Go ahead don't believe, it does not bother me one way or another.

You wanted proof that God exists, read the first sentence again and again and tell me a scientist or a special monkey made all that.

As far as stealing sat goes as being a sin, what about arguing religion?

ghost;)

[Clowny]

RaceFan409 Online
[COLOR="yellow"]And just when do he do this, read Genesis, he created Adam and used a spare rib to create Eve. Now it don't matter what color you think they were but they sure as hell weren't a mixture of stripes or spots red, white, yellow, brown, black etc.
Going on to old Noah, your God killed all the people on Earth by flood, Except Noah and His wife and children, again not more than 1 color person survived according to the Bible, so tell me where in the Bible (any edition, version or religion) does it say he created these other color people ?

Genesis 11

11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood.

Can't believe this discussion is on here, LOL. I guess thats what happens when everyone's TV is working and all the testers are bored :)

[skinerd]

Do not tell me I am the source of your knock-up.......
For the mud elephant, wading thru the sea, leaves no tracks........

Read that in a bible.....or was it on a bible,...shit I don't know..don't really care either.

[mikepr]

You know IM not trying to shove religion down anyones throat here. I take offense in being called an idiot though because of my beliefs. Mili Im not going to stoop to your level abd call you an idiot for what you do or dont belief. And Im certainly not going to kiss your ass because you run this place. So if you ban me for not being on the same page on you , well I guess that speaks a tonne about you. It was not so long ago that in NAzi Germany, this idea was the Exact same. People should be able to believe in what they want without having to be called idiots. By the way Mili In some small way you recognize the bible. This is where the 7 day week came from.

[Clowny]

And to clear this one up !!! Your paid for hardware and only hardware, not dishnet programing. From a christian point of view, stealing is stealing. What would the law enforcement and judicial community think of your pirate actions??? Did you know that many of our laws including stealing stems from biblical rules??? They would find you guilty. I don't think that the excuse " but I did pay for the hardware, your honor", will get much sympathy from anyone. So anyone who claims to be a christian, and then steals is a hypocrite and doing a dishonor to the bible and honest christians.

Judge not lest ye be judged, and who (aside from the morons in politics) gives judges the right to decide whats stealing and whats not?? I guarantee there are judges and lawyers who are far more crooked than most of the laymen. Not saying that makes anyone better or worse but pretty much explains why the world is so messed up because society is trying to replace morals and values with crooked mediators everytime someone breaks a "law".

[badger6]

I get it now God is not real; because, Badger6 wants credit for passing the earth and the whole solar system out his ass.

No need to be ugly about a simple discussion. I am more than happy that you believe in your god. I don't have a problem with you having beliefs different than I do. I am OK with knowing that I may be right or wrong in my beliefs. You on the other hand seem to have a problem with my beliefs. You also seem to have a problem dealing with the fact that you could also be wrong. The fact of the matter is that most christians don't or can't admit that they have some kind of doubt in god. No matter how small it may be it is there. Absolute faith and doubt don't mix too well.

Go ahead don't believe, it does not bother me one way or another.

You would not have said the above sentence if it did not bother you.

You wanted proof that God exists, read the first sentence again and again and tell me a scientist or a special monkey made all that.

I don't claim too know where we came from, how the earth formed, or where bigfoot lives. I don't give a shit either anyway. I have not made any fantastic statements about creation or evolution. I simply said that there is no proof that any god exists. Now, if and when that proof shows up, I will be glad to change my opinion. Both you and I know that ain't gonna happen though.

As far as stealing sat goes as being a sin, what about arguing religion?

If I am not relgious, what the hell does it mater. Sin only exists if you believe in sin. Unless of course you have some proof that it does exist.

ghost;)
Badger6

[Just4FunNC]

And another thing, IDiots are like cavemen who when seeing lightning and not understanding the damned thing thought it is something supertnatural and MUST be the work of a deity. Just cause you are too stupid to understand the process and the intricate inner workings of something it does not mean "Todd" is doing it. GET A FUCKING EDUCATION!
mili

Damn Mili now you have done it and told it Just like it is, Some people are Like Forest Gump said STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES . Just Plain Fucking Stupid. OK you Idiots know who My Avarar are talking to Personaly. LMAO

[badger6]

Judge not lest ye be judged, and who (aside from the morons in politics) gives judges the right to decide whats stealing and whats not??

I am not judging anyone, but if a christian is gonna talk the talk, shouldn't they be held accountable to walk the walk.

I guarantee there are judges and lawyers who are far more crooked than most of the laymen. Not saying that makes anyone better or worse but pretty much explains why the world is so messed up because society is trying to replace morals and values with crooked mediators everytime someone breaks a "law".

You can't justify bad behavior by pointing out another persons bad behavior, especially being a christian. It really shows why religion doesn't work in a logical discussion.

Does dish network deserve payment for all open channels on your hacked setup ??? Yes or no ???

Boy thats a hard question for the christian, but not for me.

[Hack@d]

If people don't agree with what is being taught in the school system, don't blame the teachers or the school system..blame yourself. As a parent it is your responsibility to educate your children... don't leave it up to the school system. You also have a moral obligation to society to teach them right from wrong.

If there is someone here who can prove without a doubt that there is a god or not I would love to see it. Until then, all this verbal diarrhea is just a waste of good bandwidth.

[Twostep]

Well with that being said, I guess its OK for me to rape and murder people and use your excuse, "but we're all sinners", and all is OK.

Where did I state it was an excuse, Badger?

I have no excuse. I'm also willing, eager, in fact - to freely and publically admit that I'm no better than anyone else, quite to the contrary of what all the attending athiests would have you believe about "bible-thumping Christian fanatics who think they're better than anyone else".....

In my estimation, God believes sin is sin, period. And as you and others point out, sin (to a point) is like beauty - it's all in the eye of the beholder. So, a Christian could make a legitimate statement that murder and satellite piracy are equal in the sight of God. But, we live in society - and as such, we also live by society's laws, and to that extent, the two crimes are vastly different. I believe God has his law, then gives us a brain, a justice system, courts, judges, etc. and the ability to form our own laws. And we've done just that.

Don't want to argue with you, either - that sounds like I'm taking a stand and bashing someone who believes different than myself. I'm not the final judge or the final authority on the matter, anyway - and neither is anyone in this forum, irregardless of your position.

[Clowny]

And another thing, IDiots are like cavemen who when seeing lightning and not understanding the damned thing thought it is something supertnatural and MUST be the work of a deity. Just cause you are too stupid to understand the process and the intricate inner workings of something it does not mean "Todd" is doing it. GET A FUCKING EDUCATION!
mili

All the scientists in the world, all the knowledge yet not a single one can explain why the earth is always spinning, the wind always blowing, rivers and oceans always flowing, and everything in perfect equilibrium. Trees have leaves to provide shade in the summer and the leaves fall to allow the sun to shine through in the winter. Everything designed for our survival. Yet NO FREE ENERGY?? No perpetual motion machine?? Odd, you would think it would be easy to produce the power of the earth within the earth? Ah well, maybe next year :)

[badger6]

If there is someone here who can prove without a doubt that there is a god or not I would love to see it. Until then, all this verbal diarrhea is just a waste of good bandwidth.

Proof of non existance of god would not work. Sort of like the N2 dish clone hack of a few months ago. You had some people claiming that there were working N2 hacks and you had some people calling them scammers. Its all a moot point until the scammers prove the hack or the end user gets it in the ass and gets scammed. The proof is always in the court of the person making the claims, not the other way around.

[ghost71799]

You are scared badger6 of something you have no control over.

ghost:D

[Clowny]

You can't justify bad behavior by pointing out another persons bad behavior, especially being a christian. It really shows why religion doesn't work in a logical discussion.

Does dish network deserve payment for all open channels on your hacked setup ??? Yes or no ???

Boy thats a hard question for the christian, but not for me.


Its pretty simple from any point of view, be it logical or religious. Nobody gets hurt from receiving satelite signals that you had no intention to pay for anyways. Certainly not multi-million dollar media industries who have payed off their investments 10 times over. However, pirating does bring people and communities closer together oddly enough. The amount of low to middle class people helping each other out to get free TV brings a tear to my eye, lol. If they passed a law saying it was legal as long as you were smart enough to do it in the privacy of your own home for personal use, suddenly you're a good person because you aren't breaking the law?

[vmod32]

All the scientists in the world, all the knowledge yet not a single one can explain why the earth is always spinning, the wind always blowing, rivers and oceans always flowing, and everything in perfect equilibrium. Trees have leaves to provide shade in the summer and the leaves fall to allow the sun to shine through in the winter. Everything designed for our survival. Yet NO FREE ENERGY?? No perpetual motion machine?? Odd, you would think it would be easy to produce the power of the earth within the earth? Ah well, maybe next year :)


Wow dude, science can explain all of the questions you just asked.

[badger6]

Don't get me wrong Twostep, your views seem somewhat different than most. I am simply pointing out what the majority of christians say and do. I don't have a problem with you or anyone else for their beliefs, I do have a problem with hipocrites though. Its like getting a speeding ticket and watching the cop go to his car, smoke a joint and speed off to the doughnut shop at 93 MPH. Most of the time christians have the same attitude, that they are above the law.

Let me ask you this. Is a person a christian by what they say or what they do ??? I would think that is by what they do and their actions. And if that is the case, how do pre-meditated, known wrong actions speak for that persons character???

[badger6]

You are scared badger6 of something you have no control over.

ghost:D

I have no control over the unicorns on spacemountain either !! Am I scared of those too ?? Your statement is "Stupid gone wild".

[Clowny]

Wow dude, science can explain all of the questions you just asked.

The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always
conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed.

Doesn't explain how it got here, it just exists.

[badger6]

Its pretty simple from any point of view, be it logical or religious. Nobody gets hurt from receiving satelite signals that you had no intention to pay for anyways. Certainly not multi-million dollar media industries who have payed off their investments 10 times over.

So, with that logic, you are saying that it is OK to steal as long as the people you steal from can afford it ???

However, pirating does bring people and communities closer together oddly enough. The amount of low to middle class people helping each other out to get free TV brings a tear to my eye, lol. If they passed a law saying it was legal as long as you were smart enough to do it in the privacy of your own home for personal use, suddenly you're a good person because you aren't breaking the law?

But that is not reality, they are not and will never pass a law saying that it is OK to hack encrypted signals. We are not talking law, we are talking right and wrong according to the bible. This is a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too.



Badger6

[ghost71799]

Now I am stupid, thats funny I am in college and getting my education with honors.


ghost:D

[ghost71799]

Sorry for over stepping my bounds big guy "Mili".

ghost

[badger6]

Now I am stupid, thats funny I am in college and getting my education with honors.


ghost:D


Temper, temper silly BOY.

No one ever stated that you were stupid. I said that your statement was stupid, which it was. Take it how you like it. Why the hell would someone be scared of something that they have no control over ???

You know, I am glad that you are in college and that you are so bright. I am a dumb fuck and I will go fuck myself, so to fuck with me. Do you feel better now, ha ha, you showed me didn't you. Duh, Err, Huh. Well time to go fuck myself.

The fruitcakes really flip out and crack up in a religious discussion. Duh, Err, Huh, slobber, slobber.

[Clowny]

So, with that logic, you are saying that it is OK to steal as long as the people you steal from can afford it ???

What I'm saying is you're not taking anything away from anyone. Stealing means taking a possession that is not yours. Nobody here is physically stealing the satelite they put into space. The signal is being transmitted whether I choose to watch it or not. Just because you choose to watch the signal without paying into it can't make you a thief.

[mili]

Hahaha. This is a good thread. OK eep it coming :)
I'd like to reiterate my original observation; if you believe the Earth was made 6000 years ago and you teach your child that you are a fucking idiot. That is all I have to say.

mili

[badger6]

Sorry for over stepping my bounds big guy "Mili".

ghost

WTF ?????????

What did ya do to Mili ????

I think that I am the one that you called a dumb fuck that needed to go fuck himself. You know that jesus wants you to tell the dumb fuck that you are sorry. I am very depressed and don't know if I can take it much longer. Your actions have caused me much pain.

[Clowny]

But that is not reality, they are not and will never pass a law saying that it is OK to hack encrypted signals. We are not talking law, we are talking right and wrong according to the bible. This is a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Yes, you're right but who is more righteous? The encrypter who works for a couple filthy rich people or the decrypter who works for the masses? Its like the dark side of the force and the light side of the force, hmmm...when is starwars due out on PPV? LOL

[badger6]

Hahaha. This is a good thread. OK eep it coming :)
I'd like to reiterate my original observation; if you believe the Earth was made 6000 years ago and you teach your child that you are a fucking idiot. That is all I have to say.

mili

Well I guess that I don't believe all that shit Mili, cause I am not a fucking idiot. I am a DUMB FUCK, who by the way is currenty fucking himself. Thanks alot ghost.

[ghost71799]

I believe the world is much older than 6000 years.

What, tell satan himself I am sorry, I would rather be banned and return as a born again christian.

ghost

[mikepr]

You know the question Im bringing up has nothing to do with religion vs science or whatever peole believe in. The question I bring up is breeding hate and predjudice in this world. Milli you teach your children to call other kids stupid because they believe in something you dont? I dont care what peoples views on how the world started or what religion people have. Its when people call other people idiots because they believe in what they themselves believe in. Milli I dont hate you but I feel sorry for you and your kids. Calling people names and crap like that is someting I dont teach my kids or students!!!

[badger6]

Hey ghost ?????

[badger6]

What Would Jesus Do














"And the gates of hell shall open"

[badger6]

Yea, yea, I know. Jesus would probably call me a dumb fuck and to go fuck myself with a big rubber ding dong.

BOO HOO HOO, I'm so sad and gonna blow my fuckin brains out.

[ghost71799]

You give a little to get a little badger6.

ghost

[badger6]

You must have forgot, I'm giving and getting at the same time. I'm still fucking myself.

Ohhhh, I think I'm in love

[ghost71799]

Well don't hurt yourself buy pulling your anus inside out.:eek:

Are you queer to?, Is that what you are so angry about?, If so there is help out there for those problems.

ghost

[DTVismybitch]

This topic is always a fiesty topic, but is also always a good one. I am a complete disbeliever in all religions on this planet, there may be a god, I have never met him/her or it though and until I do there is not one. I find it hard to believe that the bible can really be the word of god seeing as it was written by man, god is supposed to be perfect and man is not perfect so how could man write the bible or be allowed to write it or spread its word. you do not send an imperfect to preach the perfect word. Then you have to take into account that the bible is thousands of years old and has been re-written many times and also tranlsated many times, sorry but any time this happens shit gets screwed up. Do any of you people remember playing that "telephone" game in grade 1, you know where the teacher gives you a message that you have to repeat to the next person and then they repeat it to the next and so on until it gets to last person who then has to repeat it to everyone to see if it was correct? Was it ever entirely correct, no, unless you were in a class of 3. There is no way the different religious books such as the bible etc can be correct after being changed so much over such a long period of time. Then you have to add in the fact that pretty much every religion believes in the "get them while their young" idea. They put kids in Sunday school, get them in youth group, get them in school and do it all at a young age to make them believers. Do you know what happens when this takes place, GOD becomes reality that is what happens. When you hear the same stuff from your parents, your preists, your teachers and your friends about GOD and his stories and beliefs and you hear it from day 1 of your life and all through your youngest and most impressionable years, you start to believe in GOD. It is just like Santa Clause, the only problem is everyone eventually realizes there is no Santa Clause, and it is just your parents putting presents under the tree. Why is it that people eventually realize there is no Santa? It is because your parents tell you about santa only at X-mas time, the rest of the 11 months of the year you never hear a word about him and his elves. What do they say about Santa, well they tell great stories about his reindeers, and his love for milk and cookies, but they also tell you you must be nice and not naughty or Santa won't come this year. Thsi is very similar to GOD, the bible tells you of his wishes and beliefs and his wrathe for not following them. The difference is Santa is only real for 1 month out of the year, and God is real for every day of your life in most cases. So as i said before, GOD becomes reality, out of thin air, but Santa becomes fiction because there is less emphasis on him. Simply put, 99.9% of religious followers are following their religion because their parents forced them to go to church and make them say grace before dinner, and send them to sunday school and religion specific elementary and secondary schools. So there is a method to the madness. When people grow up without religion being promoted to them and actually choose to believe in what they think is right then you have someone who is a true believer, anyone who gets forced into a religion, told to believe something that they don't know any better to not believe is simply that, a forced believer. How many of you can actually say that you would believe that Jesus is your savior if you parents or some other person did not take you to that church every week, if you stayed home instead and never even heard about religion at all you would not believe. The best part is when the true believers break the rules and just assume it is ok cause god will forgive them. Why make rules if they are just going to be broken and then the people breaking them be forgiven. No matter what you do, if you ask god for forgiveness he is supposed to give it to you, so what is with following the rules, it is a waste of time. Pope Jean paul the 2nd coined the term 'Cafeteria Catholics", meaning like a cafeteria certain catholics thinkthey can just pick and choose the rules they follow, he wanted this concept eliminated from the catholic religion. i don't know about you guys but U have had lots of catholic girlfriends who did not exaclty wait for marriage to get me in the sac. When it comes down to it, if your going to believe in a religion believe it in because you choose too, not because your parents do, and if you believe it then follow it, do not claim to follow it and half ass it. I have no issues with people who are religious, to each their own, i have issues with people who don't keep it to themselves and with people who believe in stuff only because they don't know any better. The best selling book in the world of all time is the bible, so as much as people would like to think religion is all happy happy joy joy, there are people making some serious good money on religion. There is much more to this than what we see. I could go on all night, but as i said before, to each their own, my 2 cents.

[jason_7499]

I'm always hearing people talk about how the bible is phony. About how it was written by a bunch of old fogies a thousand years ago and pertains to nothing of the present. Well, I'm here to tell these people that love nothing more than to diss the bible that they don't know shit. I think that people take things out of context a little too much. It's like people that don't believe in God because they can't see God when all they have to do is open their eyes a little wider and stop being so closed minded. You come to expect things like this in a world where only what's on the outside matters more than what's on the inside.Where appearances are dominate over content.
The bible is one of the most encrypted books in existence. Many of the messages inside are meant to be taken in a metaphorical manner, not literal. Some people look at the prophecies, such as Revelations, and call their descriptions absolutely ridiculous. Well, try being a 1st century man and describing 21st century life.
The book of Psalms is arguably one of the most important books in the bible because it teaches many valuable lessons of LIFE. The most important lesson is the exact center of the bible.It has been mathematically proven that PSALMS chapter 118 verse 8 is the split center of the bible, both old and new testament combined. Psalms chapter 117 is the shortest chapter of any book in the entire bible. Psalms chapter 119 is the longest chapter of any book in the entire bible. Now, there are exactly 594 chapters before Psalm chapter 118 and exactly 594 chapters after Psalm 118. And if you add those numbers together,, you get 1,188. Which equals- Psalm 118:8

"It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man"-Psalm 118:8

Now what does this tell us? That God is in control of everything. I take refuge in the Lord, and I don't need to trust in someone else and what they believe God to be.I have more reasons to believe what I believe than this. So believe what you will. That's why you were given you the `free will' and the `conscience' that no other creature on this planet seemingly possesses.
Thank you, and God bless you all.

[jason_7499]

P.S.
you all know where Christmas came from right? to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ....

[JT]

Ok badger, and you too ghost, enough is enough. We were walking a pretty fine line with this thread and now it's degenerating big time. Time for you two to shake hands and retire to your respective corners. I saw, and edited, the guy that started the direct insult. And badger, I think you took it a little too personally. Let's call it a night and just agree to disagree. I'd venture to guess you both have something good to watch on the tele. I am also guilty of 'casting stones' in this thread, but that isn't an excuse to completely cut loose.

[ghost71799]

Good posts guys.

ghost

[ghost71799]

I agree JT, us stupid people need to get some rest before school.

ghost

[Clowny]

The problem is some people live a wrong life before they learn what is right. This in not their fault, not everyone is raised with guidance in their life. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a mother and father figure. I guarantee if everyone were to write down what they learned in life at the age of 70 (if they made it that far living a risky life), it would pretty much encompass everything that is in the bible, or any religious scripture for that matter. Its more or less the history of people and their journeys. People seem to trust news articles, television and magazines in a world where money and power is more rampant than ever than books such as the bible that were written over hundreds of years at times when people had little or no reason to misguide other people. We all seek the truth, santa claus and the tooth fairy aren't helping any.

[mili]

Sorry but anyone telling their kids that dyno bones are forgery, that the Earth is 6000 years old and that evolution does not exist IS a fucking idot and I won't change my mind on that one.

mili

[JT]

Even the Vatican has publicly proclaimed that evolution is fact. That was the original debate; intelligent design as an alternative to evolution. It's not appropriate to substitute a faith based model in place of the model accepted by the scientific community.

[skinerd]

Sorry but anyone telling their kids that dyno bones are forgery, that the Earth is 6000 years old and that evolution does not exist IS a fucking idot and I won't change my mind on that one.
mili

If dino bones are a forgery, someone sure did a good job.......all those fossilized dino eggs with fossilized dino embryos......damn they thought of everything....I have even seen fossilized dino do-do......man, they did think of everything.

[Clowny]

Sorry but anyone telling their kids that dyno bones are forgery, that the Earth is 6000 years old and that evolution does not exist IS a fucking idot and I won't change my mind on that one.
mili

Well, I personally don't know any archeologists that have dug up dyno bones. I personally haven't uncovered any in my lifetime so again, I would be believing something that I haven't seen or experienced. I'm not saying there weren't any giant lizards roaming this planet at some time but it seems every culture has their myths. The lockness monster, big foot, dynosaurs, dragons, blah, blah. I believe in evolution (things do change over time) but not to go as far as saying we evolved from apes, since that does not explain the different colours of skin and facial appearance and the fact that we still coexist with our so called ancestors.

[RaceFan409]

I have to wonder if you guys who have spent so much time reading science books and magazines but never picked a Bible up, what your perspectives would be if you actually read one from cover to cover. It's pretty obvious from some of your posts that you have been blinded to the truth and your hearts are hardened against it. Usually it takes a catastrophic event in someone's life that brings them to their knees to ever change that. The older you get, the less likely it is to happen. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How many of you have ever seen the air you breathe?? The other thing that really puzzles me is how someone can possibly look at the world and think even for one split second that it all "just happened" by itself without a designer. The fact that the Earth itself is just the right distance from the Sun to keep you from freezing or burning up and spins on it's axis to provide both day and night as well as keeping you from falling off the surface, the atmosphere that we have protects us from the deadly radiation of the sun, and the heart inside your chest continues to beat and circulate blood throughout your body to sustain life even while you sleep---and what about the miracle of childbirth itself???? How can anyone out there deny that it took someone with much more intelligence than what our minds can even comprehend to put this all in place and that it just happened on it's own?? You don't have to believe any of this. All I'm asking is that you take a look with an open mind.


P.S. Great posts Jason 7499 & Twostep

[Trapofmind]

See JT's post #88

This was a good post by JT and one should go back and read it all, I don’t want to quote any part of it out of context.

Your post does show a lack of following the current scientific trends of which many are desperately seeking to discard EVILution, but what are you to believe otherwise?

Your experiment done in college was misleading. First, if your premise was correct, you only achieved evolution in the lab by the Intelligent Design of the teacher.

However what you produced was not evolution. When you introduce a antibiotic to bacteria you kill part of the bacteria or all of it. When you introduce another kind of bacteria to the first, the stronger part in each will kill the other and you’ll have something stronger and different.

However, what we see in this is the loss of information, nothing new added. If you would repeat this process eventually you would run out of information and have one very limited bacteria.

Loss of information is never evolution, even if it is seemingly beneficial.. The fact is, and is indisputably held by top scientists even evolutionists, that no beneficial mutation has ever been observed. To believe that they occur, you would have to have blind faith and not science, since science is the observation of the natural world.

[Trapofmind]

I've read again (even after my post refuting it: #68) that certain people don't believe in dinosaur bones, or that they are fakes. I want to state this for the record:

No person who reads there Bible would have any problem whatsoever with dinosaurs: Job clearly mentions dinosaurs thousands of years before they were "discovered" by science. Job 40:15-41:10 clearly describes a Sauropod type dinosaur with a tail like a cedar.

No IDiot, or holder of Intelligent Design (thanks Mili) would have any problem with Dinosaurs, since (place throat clearing noise here) they study the natural world like any true scientist and consider the wealth of actual evidence for their view.

[Boris279]

I believe You believe, We all believe,
Thats the big word believe,
And i think that we all should decide by our self what we want to believe or not. we are all mature people who all have a mind of our self,
But that there are people who poison little children in there mind, with what they believe is the right and only thing thats absolutely wrong !!!!
You can tell them, about God and the Bible and Darwin, and Fossils, etc, but let them decide what they want to believe by them self, don't push them to something that you believe. and if they want to believe in God and you don't, respect that choice,
I was raised in the Cristian way, and my wife is raised in the Catholic way, and we both respect each other in the things we believe, and we both study a lot to know that there is more than they always told you from the Bible, I believe that the Bible belongs in the time when it actually was written.
And in these days with all the knowledge and science there is, most of that is based on facts and not believe.
So we all can make our own interpretation in what we believe ore not,
And think your children are the future, So what you teach them is what they will be, and let them believe in what they wane believe.

Have you all a nice day

Boris279

[wasup]

The earth has been here for millions of years, God just started over and recreated the inhabitants. (between Gen 1:1 and 1:2) The earth BECAME formless......there it is.
DNA splicing is possibe, howerever kind produces kind. OH i forgot about jorts which evolved from jeans and shorts, AND the spoon and fork did give us what we use at KFC to eat our mash potatoes. I forgot about those.
First we were goo, graduated from the zoo, and now your YOU.
signed,
idiot

[toober]

P.S.
you all know where Christmas came from right? to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ....

That is what it's supposed to be, yes. But, I think the church could've come up with their own time for the celebration instead of using it to cover up the older pagan solstice celebrations. Do a bit of research and you will find out Jesus was born in the springtime.

And the other big one, Easter, is named for the pagan goddess of springtime and rebirth.

I still believe in God, and will until proven wrong, but when it comes to covering things up and misleading the masses us xians are pretty good.

[Bandit5906]

If people don't agree with what is being taught in the school system, don't blame the teachers or the school system..blame yourself. As a parent it is your responsibility to educate your children... don't leave it up to the school system. You also have a moral obligation to society to teach them right from wrong.
If there is someone here who can prove without a doubt that there is a god or not I would love to see it. Until then, all this verbal diarrhea is just a waste of good bandwidth.

Wrong on that issue: the 9th Circuit Court took that right away from parent(s) recently.

Re: This discussion: Why is it not possible to have a rational discussion w/o all the name calling? Does that add to the conversation in any way?

[Twostep]

Let me ask you this. Is a person a christian by what they say or what they do ???

Neither. Good works aren't a free pass to anywhere. Pablo Escobar gave millions and millions of dollars to poor people in his Colombian homeland; they thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What's in your heart is what counts. If your heart's in the right place, the rest will come naturally and automatically. Mili states that he's 100 times as kind as some so-called Christians he's acquainted with - and if such is the case, perhaps he's a bit more right of center than he's willing to admit....:D

Someone said this is the worst thread ever. Quite to the contrary. To me, it's fascinating to hear from people all over the world, from different backgrounds; cultures. The fistfights need to stop, but strong differences of opinion are of great interest to me.

Think I'll start an Iraq war thread:eek:

[Cimba]

Imagine

John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one .

[realfire]

do think of a world with no order....

the creation of hell, smart move to scare people to follow most laws

& as far as iraq goes, they were chopping each others heads off long before 6000 YEARS AGO & will never quit, just a waste of time

I figured some southern baptist's will leave, with the fucking moron 6000 years comment mili made

that's what they teach lmao

[realfire]

Imagine
John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one .


yeah, but foxnews/nixon/neocons/gayedgarhoover/thedeepsouth/peoplefromutah/SOMEpeople-in-fly-overstates/would just call him a no good trouble making commie

how about when he made the comment that the beatles were more popular then jesus christ? the dumb asses never did get it

[skinerd]

The bible is certainly clear on all issues.......or is it......

Which first--beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

............................OR.................

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

...............Well, which was it????????................

[skinerd]

So,

The bible says man was put here first..........

The bible says beasts were put there first........

I am clear on it now.......the bible explains it all.......BOTH ways.....
can you say "contradictory"........

[vmod32]

Well, I personally don't know any archeologists that have dug up dyno bones. I personally haven't uncovered any in my lifetime so again, I would be believing something that I haven't seen or experienced. I'm not saying there weren't any giant lizards roaming this planet at some time but it seems every culture has their myths. The lockness monster, big foot, dynosaurs, dragons, blah, blah. I believe in evolution (things do change over time) but not to go as far as saying we evolved from apes, since that does not explain the different colours of skin and facial appearance and the fact that we still coexist with our so called ancestors.


LOL, have you even taken a class on evolution? It can fully explain your questions..

[realfire]

mili your dead wrong.......

adam & eve rode dinosaurs to church

[JT]

See JT's post #88
This was a good post by JT and one should go back and read it all, I don’t want to quote any part of it out of context.
Your post does show a lack of following the current scientific trends of which many are desperately seeking to discard EVILution, but what are you to believe otherwise?
Your experiment done in college was misleading. First, if your premise was correct, you only achieved evolution in the lab by the Intelligent Design of the teacher.
However what you produced was not evolution. When you introduce a antibiotic to bacteria you kill part of the bacteria or all of it. When you introduce another kind of bacteria to the first, the stronger part in each will kill the other and you’ll have something stronger and different.
However, what we see in this is the loss of information, nothing new added. If you would repeat this process eventually you would run out of information and have one very limited bacteria.
Loss of information is never evolution, even if it is seemingly beneficial.. The fact is, and is indisputably held by top scientists even evolutionists, that no beneficial mutation has ever been observed. To believe that they occur, you would have to have blind faith and not science, since science is the observation of the natural world.


It's blatantly obvious you never took any science courses at a college level. You should stick to your book of faith. It's pretty clear you've put the time in on that. I don't pretend to know anything about the bible, you shouldn't pretend to know anything about science.

[Bandit5906]

mili your dead wrong.......
adam & eve rode dinosaurs to church

That doesn't explain who broke them to ride, IMHO!

[realfire]

adam did, also some prefer not to call them dinosaurs, I FOR ONE, choose jesus horses

[fubr]

Get your hands off me you damn dirty APE!!!

[fubr]

The Bible does not say we were first.
There could have been other beings on earth before us.(like matrix 5th time around)

Mili you should really read the whole bible and "hash: it out man it has alot of science in it. but when it was written it could not been understood by the limited knowledge people had then.
What are the three elements of man?
What are the three elements of dirt?

The wisdom in the bible is far beyond us. If a man read the book of Proverbs and lived it he would be wise beyond his years even if he was a sinner out right.


ok the dinosaur theory.
Before the flood the water was in the air.
Kinda like a hydroponic earth.
This cause alot of pressure.
The fruit of the earth had medicinal qualities that made men and beast live longer (1000 years on average)
reptiles never stop growing. Ever seen a 1000 year old lizard?(might resemble a raptor)
no animal ever died before the lamb God killed to cover up Adam cause he was naked.(A example for us to see later)
Noah took 7 clean and two unclean animals aboard.
The entire earth was not flooded just the part people lived on.(then earth quakes and mountains formed) divided the continets
Noah's son had not yet started walking yet so his children were the first to make it to Africa cause they ran out of places to walk.
Thats why Africa is the oldest and the less civilized of all because they were outcast and spent years walking.
Now remember before the flood the climate and the earth was different. 1000 years was like 1 day so up till the flood could have took 1 billion years.
from the first day till God made Adam could have been few thousand years.
GOD did not create the earth(planet)at the same time it was already here(accounts for the billions of years missing)
After the flood then time became like we know it now 1 time round the sun = 1 day.
the water fell causing the flood men started dieing sooner cause of the weather and atmosphere.
Before the earth burns up it will go back to like it was before the flood for 1000 years.
then it will burn up and we will come back here to live and will go to all the other planets by just wanting too but we will COME BACK to earth as often as we like it cause it will be one big garden of eden.


Oh aliens are demons

of course we evolved but not directly from apes.
and yes it took a million years or better. Why then are apes still apes would they not want to be human too
how did they pick which one evoloved maybe a freindly game of duck duck goose :)


Ahh fuck it maybe you guys are right.

[realfire]

Evolution is a theory precisely because it has been tested. There is no point or status 'beyond' theory. A theory does not graduate to fact. In science, all explanations are theories. Our explanation of gravity is the theory of gravity. Note that the existence of gravity is accepted, just as the existence or reality of evolution is accepted. The theory is the scientific attempt to explain these phenomenon.

Theories come into existence when a hypothesis is proposed, then tested by some means. Needless to say, one test is rarely considered sufficient to call something a theory. Rather, theories are repeatedly tested, ideally by diverse methods. The more tests a theory passes, the more reliable it is considered. Evolution has been tested thousands, if not millions of times. Intelligent design has no testable hypothesis, nor any means of falsification, so by definition it cannot be a theory.

Theories are useful because they make predictions. Newton's theory of gravity allowed us to calculate the amount of fuel, thrust, time and distance that had to be traversed to send a man to the moon. Had Newton's predictions been wrong, his theory would be useless and more astronauts probably would have died. Evolution, similarly, makes amazingly accurate and useful predictions. Evolution predicts the adaptation for viruses as they become more resistant to vaccines. That's natural selection at it's finest and it's why you need a different flu vaccination each year, and why the current strain of influenza could be so dangerous. Evolution is the theory that makes it possible to know this and react to it. Intelligent design, by contrast, makes no useful predictions at all, nor are there any applications, useful or otherwise, from ID. I personally think people who reject evolution should have to use the same influenza vaccine year after year. Somehow, I don't think even the most rabid opponent would be willing to put his money where his mouth is on that count.

Finally, ID, is not a theory because it is a religious belief. It relies on the assumption of some supernatural force. Science does not explore the supernatural, only that which can be observed through natural means. Not only is ID a religious based belief, but, as the Dover, PA trial demonstrates, it is a very, very flimsily concealed one.

* The intelligent design texbook recommended by the Dover school board was originally a 'creation science' textbook. In many places in earlier editions, the text was identical to the new edition, except the word 'creationism' had been replaced with 'intelligent design'. In one draft of the book, there was an incomplete erasure of the word “creationist”, with an insertion of “design proponents” into it, meaning that students might have had the opportunity to learn the position of “cdesign proponentsists” on these matters.

The Dover school board, in an act that could only be described as monumentally stupid, hired the Thomas More Law Center to represent them. The Dover school board had to show that ID is not a religious belief to win. Yet they hired a law firm specializing in doing pro bono work for Christians. Their web site has a large banner graphic reading 'The sword and shield for People of Faith'

All intelligent design advocacy groups are Christian. Their main supporter and the organization that has done such a good job of plugging ID that even you think it's science is called the Discovery Institute. Their goal is to abolish what they call 'materialism' from science and invite more supernatural explanations. Their primary strategy, which has been in progress for the past decade at least, is called 'The Wedge' strategy. It relies on trying to change public opinion about science, usually through misinformation and lies

Although intelligent design does not explain anything or offer any alternative explanation beyond 'god did it', it does devote a HUGE amount of time to pointing out 'gaps' in evolution

[JT]

Great post realfire. You appear to have a firm grasp on the basics of scientific procedure. The bottom line is there is no such thing as faith based science. It just doesn't work that way.

[keltic]

If evolution is a religion how come it has a logical easy to follow with your own eyes phisycal al prfofs every step of the way? If is religion for only those of you who are too lazy to get an education and go in DEEP how exactly mutation on the cellular level works, how changes in outside stimuly will result in natural diversification and in elimination of those who cannot adapt and in general what the biochemical processes involved are. It is no religion it is just not easy to understand especially if you got no ability to learn.
As opposed to bible thumping and "belief" evolution requires no beliefs in anything only to accept what you can GRAB with your hands and see and touch.
It is a hard fact that is well documented and proven by experiments that can be recreated over and over again in laboratories.
PLEASE recreate your genesis in a lab PLEASE.
mili

Show me in a lab how the primordial goo that some believe life started out as was able to go from being a lifeless matter to suddenly being an organic life form capable of reproduction and developing into the millions of species that inhabit the earth. Even with cloning they start with live eggs and change DNA to achieve their goal.
Just because we believe that something greater than a Big Bang is responsible for creating life as we know it does not mean were uneducated. It may be that we are open minded about how things took place and how they are still taking shape. As far as everything being created in 6 days, it may be that, both sides of the issue take that time frame too literally. However, my believing in God does not mean that I’m smarter or dumber than those that only believe in evolution are. It only means that I believe differently about the subject.

[skinerd]

Fact is NOBODY know how we got here, and NOBODY will ever know......
Everything presented is A THEORY, there is no proof positive and never will be...it is totally beyond the grasp of humans.....just as how far does space extend, or what is the largest number, incomrehensible.........

Now back to swiping TV signals........we understand that.......somewhat....

[Morpheux]

The bottom line is there is no such thing as faith based science. It just doesn't work that way.

You should read some Stephen Hawkings. The harder Astrophysics search for an unified theory of the universe, the more they start believing some higher (somehow intelligent) force had to have helped (if not designed) in the process.

The problem with organized religion is that people keep trying to humanize God, as some incredible being with eyes and arms and legs and feelings.

It always cracks me up to hear that George Carlin stand up where he states that religion has been able to get away with the greatest bullshit story ever, about this invisible guy, who lives in the sky, he is omnipotent, omnipresent, and he has a set of rules that must be followed, or he will cast you to suffer for all of eternity in a lake of fire... ...but he loves you. ....and he needs money, he has the power to do anything, resurrect the dead, create a universe... ...he just cannot handle money :)

[keltic]

There are two things about this discussion that stand out to me. 1st is the intolerance of other peoples beliefs. Why does what someone chooses to believe make them ignorant? Those of you that do not believe in God have the right not to believe; those of us that do believe have the right to believe. Both of us have that right and should not be persecuted for it. I was taught that God gave us the ability to make our own choices in life and what we do with that ability is up to us. He lends us guidance and lives in our heart if we accept and allow it. He also loves those that do not believe just as much as those that do. If you don’t believe the same as way as I do that’s your right and I respect that and will not degrade you for your belief. I only ask that you do the same for me.
2nd is the idea that only scientific theories being taught in school. They are just that, theory, as defined by Webster’s as
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
This leads me to believe that what you want is only the unproven facts of how we were created as believed by the minority to be taught and funded when the Majority believes something different. Yes, I’m saying that the Christian population in this country is the majority especially when compared to those that believe life was created by a big bang in the universe. The Big Bang theory is one of the most controversial hypotheses out there. There is not any proof one way or another as to it being right or wrong. The idea of life springing from a lifeless primordial goo has never been duplicated or proven as fact but they are both taught in public education. So if these unproven and so far unprovable hypotheses can be taught, then why is the theory of intelligent design not allowed? What’s fair for one is fair for all. The scientific community is probably considered the most liberal when it comes to theories and speculation. I find it ironic that this so called open minded liberal faction is also every bit as close minded as the conservative religious faction that they constantly denounce. Maybe the term Liberal Scientific Community should be redefined to a person or persons that thinks only they are right and should never be questioned or disagreed with like the Conservative Religious fanatical. But then this is the same group that always seems to have their hands out wanting all of us to fund their research on things like bovine flatulence or swine hygiene but will fight tooth and nail to prevent any form of tax-payer derived money from going to a church to feed the hungry or help cloth the poor.
Hypocrisy at it finest is what it all amounts too, but this is just my take on the subject.

[JT]

You should read some Stephen Hawkings. The harder Astrophysics search for an unified theory of the universe, the more they start believing some higher (somehow intelligent) force had to have helped (if not designed) in the process.
The problem with organized religion is that people keep trying to humanize God, as some incredible being with eyes and arms and legs and feelings.
It always cracks me up to hear that George Carlin stand up where he states that religion has been able to get away with the greatest bullshit story ever, about this invisible guy, who lives in the sky, he is omnipotent, omnipresent, and he has a set of rules that must be followed, or he will cast you to suffer for all of eternity in a lake of fire... ...but he loves you. ....and he needs money, he has the power to do anything, resurrect the dead, create a universe... ...he just cannot handle money :)

I havn't read much Steven Hawking, but I've read some. In his book a brief history of time he does make the statement you quoted. He also goes on to explain how that is the same state of comprehension we had when people were arguing if the earth was flat or not. The lack of understanding comes from a lack of information and ability to obtain the data needed to have an accurate understanding. Fortunately science was finally able to put to bed the flat earth theory with imperical evidence. That's why not so intelligent design is not science. It's not testable or provable. ID is nothing more than a faith based notion.

[Clowny]

Fact is NOBODY know how we got here, and NOBODY will ever know......
Everything presented is A THEORY, there is no proof positive and never will be...it is totally beyond the grasp of humans.....just as how far does space extend, or what is the largest number, incomrehensible.........

Now back to swiping TV signals........we understand that.......somewhat....

I don't know about you, but I got here by trying to figure out how to get free TV and spread the good word to my friends, family and co-workers.

[badger6]

Would you like to biggie size your order ???

[Bandit5906]

The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection. ID is thus a scientific disagreement with the core claim of evolutionary theory that the apparent design of living systems is an illusion.
In a broader sense, Intelligent Design is simply the science of design detection -- how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI). An inference that certain biological information may be the product of an intelligent cause can be tested or evaluated in the same manner as scientists daily test for design in other sciences.

ID is controversial because of the implications of its evidence, rather than the significant weight of its evidence. ID proponents believe science should be conducted objectively, without regard to the implications of its findings. This is particularly necessary in origins science because of its historical (and thus very subjective) nature, and because it is a science that unavoidably impacts religion.

[smilingjack]

I think the people pushing this are a lot like lawyers and newspaper people
The church is famous for it

"Never let facts or the truth get in the way of a good story"

[realfire]

ID is based on religion not theory, I respect your opinion

see post #166

[bullshitter]

We Are Made Of Soft Shit...

[JT]

The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection. ID is thus a scientific disagreement with the core claim of evolutionary theory that the apparent design of living systems is an illusion.
In a broader sense, Intelligent Design is simply the science of design detection -- how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI). An inference that certain biological information may be the product of an intelligent cause can be tested or evaluated in the same manner as scientists daily test for design in other sciences.
ID is controversial because of the implications of its evidence, rather than the significant weight of its evidence. ID proponents believe science should be conducted objectively, without regard to the implications of its findings. This is particularly necessary in origins science because of its historical (and thus very subjective) nature, and because it is a science that unavoidably impacts religion.
ID IS NOT a theory. It's a faith based notion. ID doesn't meet the requirements to be referred to as a theory in the eyes of science. Science is already conducted objectively and without prejudice. You can't say the same about any religeos tenet like creationism/ID. That's why there is no room for ID in a science classroom. ID is not objective, it's faith based. This is the core of the disagreement between the religeous zealots who believe ID should be taught as an alternative to evolution and the scientists. Without religion, specifically catholisism, there is no ID discussion to be had. The issue never would have been brought up if not for the creationists trying to push their religion on the rest of the world. There is not now, nor will there ever be any physical evidence to support the notion of not so intelligent design. ID/creationism is not science, it's religion. If you want to discuss religion in a philosophy or history class, fine, that's where it belongs. Faith based reasoning has no place what so ever in a science classroom.

[mili]

Amen to that one.

mili

[skinerd]

OK.....who or what designed the intelligent designer......life had to start somewhere......

[Bandit5906]

ID IS NOT a theory. It's a faith based notion. ID doesn't meet the requirements to be referred to as a theory in the eyes of science. Science is already conducted objectively and without prejudice. You can't say the same about any religeos tenet like creationism/ID. That's why there is no room for ID in a science classroom. ID is not objective, it's faith based. This is the core of the disagreement between the religeous zealots and the scientists. Without religion, specifically catholisism, there is no ID discussion to be had. The issue never would have been brought up if not for the creationists trying to push their religion on the rest of the world. There is not now, nor will there ever be any physical evidence to support the notion of not so intelligent design. ID/creationism is not science, it's religion. If you want to discuss religion in a philosophy or history class, fine, that's where it belongs. Faith based reasoning has no place what so ever in a science classroom.

How is it that my belief in intelligent design makes me a realigous zealot? Have I or anyone else referred to you as a secular moron?

[Bandit5906]

I think the people pushing this are a lot like lawyers and newspaper people
The church is famous for it
"Never let facts or the truth get in the way of a good story"

What facts or truth would you be referring too?

[Twostep]

If you want to discuss religion in a philosophy or history class, fine, that's where it belongs.

Uh-oh....the ACLU just pitched your ass to the street, JT:eek:

If Christians could get courts to allow religious discussion in philosophy classes, they'd consider it an astounding advancement. It'll never happen, but if it did, I'd go for it 100 percent. America is 85 percent Christian; they should be allowed exposure to Christian teachings somewhere along the line. I certainly agree it shouldn't be discussed in a science class anymore than algebraic equations belong in a drama class.

JT. did we actually agree on something ? :D

[PJMan]

I think that this is the proper forum to post this! God created Adam, as Adam was walking the earth alone, God noticed that he needed a mate, so he asked Adam, what would be the best attributes for you to have in a mate? Adam replied, I want a very beautiful, smart, sexy, loving and obeying mate, someone that I would like to spend all my time with! With that God replied, it will cost you an arm and a leg, and Adam said, what can I get for a rib! The moral of this story is, don't cheat yourself out of all of the possibilities that could exist, don't go cheap! Damn I bought a clone!

[realfire]

Mr. Robertson should be happy he lives in a country with 1st amendment rights
c & p

November 11, 2005
Dover Residents, Beware!: You’ve Unleashed The Wrath Of Robertson
Televangelist Pat Robertson throughout his long career has provided a slew of remarkable and sometimes outrageous commentary. Inflammatory and bizarre meanderings are apart of his shtick.

His latest off-the-wall invective suggests that God is unhappy with Dover, Pa., citizens who voted out some school board members who had approved an anti-evolution policy for the town’s schools.

During the Nov. 10 broadcast of his “700 Club,” Pat was asked by the show’s “news anchor” to share his thoughts on the election outcome. And Robertson apparently couldn’t help but launch into a screed.

“I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover, if there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God,” said Robertson, whose Christian Broadcasting Network claims a million viewers daily. “You just rejected him from your city.

“And don’t wonder why he hasn’t helped you when problems begin, if they begin,” continued Robertson. “And I’m not saying they will. But if they do, just remember you just voted God out of your city. And if that’s the case, then don’t ask for his help ‘cause he might not be there.”

In the past, Robertson has predicted that a Florida town might be hit by a hurricane, terrorist attacks or a meteor for allowing a pro-gay group to fly rainbow flags in public places. Shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in America, he agreed with the Rev. Jerry Falwell that God allowed those attacks to occur because of the actions of liberal public interest groups and gays. More recently, he suggested that the U.S. government should “take out” Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

Robertson’s message yesterday to Dover citizens is merely par for the course.

Instead of cowering in fear over the school board election results, Dover residents are far more likely to walk their streets with a great sense of relief. For too long, the town has been embroiled in a controversy that produced lots of bickering and a constitutionally suspect biology policy. School officials should never have been required to tell students in science classes that evolution is a controversial scientific theory and that they should be aware of an alternative theory called “intelligent design” (ID).

That school board policy attracted plenty of unflattering media attention and spurred a costly federal lawsuit. Eleven Dover parents and taxpayers joined in suing the board over the policy, arguing that ID is not science, but a variant of creationism. The school board, the parents said, have no business promoting religion in the public schools. (Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the ACLU of Pennsylvania are representing the parents in that lawsuit, which is now under consideration by a federal judge.)

Fed up with the board’s political antics, Dover residents kicked out the eight members who supported the pro-ID policy and replaced them with candidates who ran against it.

One of the newly elected Dover School Board members, in an article by The Philadelphia Inquirer, described Robertson’s comments as unbelievable and called the TV preacher a “loose cannon.”

and you wonder why some are against organized religion

I still find it hard to believe that Kerry won Penn..... you got pittsburgh to the east, philly to the west & alabama in the middle.....

wonder what he thinks of the ACLU? lol

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid,than to open it and remove all doubt."- Mark Twain

[keltic]

Beg to differ with you JT but your wrong. Whether you consider ID to be faith based or whatever it is still theory. Just because the Scientific Mainstream refuses to accept the possibility does not mean its not theory. There are many in the scientific field that aren’t Christian but do acknowledge the possibility that someone or some other being created life as we know it on this planet. As was stated earlier there was a time when people including science thought this planet was flat and the theory that it was round was considered lunacy and not theory. That changed as we so well know. The Big Bang theory is a contradiction of its self but is still a theory none the less. The Big Bang is what the life forming from primordial goo is based on but at the same time science has stated that spontaneous generation of life was a myth. I guess if the Big Bang is correct then you can mix the proper combination of pond mud and stagnated water and have frogs suddenly develop. Or maybe a dug farm pond does suddenly grow fish from nothing instead of fertile eggs being deposited from the feet of cranes and other birds that landed after having been at other ponds and having a few stray eggs stick to them.
Lets face it, until we can combine atoms and have life suddenly appear from that combination then the Big Bang is a theory. Until you provide convincing evidence that can not be refuted or have the slightest possibility of being wrong that man evolved from primates then Darwin’s theory of evolution is just that, theory. The same as ID is based on theory and speculation. Its just more people have faith in life coming a creator then in life evolving from apes. But technically its all theory whether you want to accept it or not. Saying it’s not accepted scientific theory of calling it faith based is just a play on words.
As far as the ACLU, why would I want to base anything I believe or do on a group that claims abortion is alright but then will turn around and fight to keep the death penalty from being applied to person that commits mass murder and rape on women and children. The ACLU is the largest organization of leftwing crackpots in the US.
And commenting on the reference to Pat Robertson, he, Fawell, Benny Hinn and the seemingly endless list TV evangelical fruitcakes that want us to be little sheep donating everything we have to them and their and their do it the way we say or your going to hell after God strikes you down for not donating enough to me movement and not use the mind that God provided us to think with need to be loaded up and shot just like Chafes. Truth be told that may be the one thing Robertson has said that makes sense. It’s just not the politically correct thing to say. Then again, we could put 75% of those serving in DC in the needs to be shot list with the fanatics, Chavezes of the world and the ACLU.

[keltic]

Uh-oh....the ACLU just pitched your ass to the street, JT:eek:

If Christians could get courts to allow religious discussion in philosophy classes, they'd consider it an astounding advancement. It'll never happen, but if it did, I'd go for it 100 percent. America is 85 percent Christian; they should be allowed exposure to Christian teachings somewhere along the line. I certainly agree it shouldn't be discussed in a science class anymore than algebraic equations belong in a drama class.

JT. did we actually agree on something ? :D


I didn’t even like algebraic equations being discussed in algebra class. I thought we should watch porn and discuss that in every class. :D

[JT]

Beg to differ with you JT but your wrong. Whether you consider ID to be faith based or whatever it is still theory. ....

I am frequently wrong, but I'm not wrong on this one. In science there are certain requirements for an idea to be labled as a theory. ID meets none of these requirements. (See realfire's post) In the eyes of science ID is just an untestable notion. If measured according to the basic rules of science, ID isn't even a valid hypothesis.

[keltic]

I am frequently wrong, but I'm not wrong on this one. In science there are certain requirements for an idea to be labled as a theory. ID meets none of these requirements. (See realfire's post) In the eyes of science ID is just an untestable notion. If measured according to the basic rules of science, ID isn't even a valid hypothesis.



It looks like we may have to agree to disagree on this one. However, as long as we do it in a mature and none violent manner that’s all right. As adults, we should be able to discuss our opinions and still have a beer afterwards without thinking bad about each other because one of us didn’t change his opinion. I believe that’s one of the things that God wants us to do and I served this country because I believe that’s one of the biggest fundamental principles and rights we have here. The constitution gives us the right to worship or not worship as we see fit. The religion based contributors to this thread needs to remember a couple of biblical teachings like turn the other cheek and thou who is without sin cast the first stone and before getting pissed about this and those that are agnostic or atheistic based should remember that were all entitled to our own opinion whether we think it right or wrong without fear of reprisal so long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of those that differ in thought.
To show no hard feelings about any of this on my part, have a cold one or two on me while your watching TV tonight.

[realfire]

When is a theory not a theory?

The scientific method is simple:
Form a theory
Make predictions based on that theory
Test your theory against observations
Goto step 1
It doesn't matter if your theory is wrong. That's what science is all about. "It's only a theory" applies to all science, from evolution to e=mc2. In physics you can test by observation whenever you want. Testing evolutionary theory relies on waiting for more fossil evidence to be uncovered. In that respect evolutionary theory is less reliable, although it should become more reliable over time.
The problem with creation science is that no science is being done. A theory is formed based on the activist's interpretation of scripture, but it seems to me that the theory is never adequately tested. There is always the convenient back door of "Oh, God just made it like that to confuse us". That's reaching outside of science, because your theory isn't testable. You might be right, but there is no way for reasonable people to test whether you are right or not.
Evolutionary theory forms a much better basis for science. It can be tested. It can be argued by reasonable people. So far the arguments have lead to a theory of an earth much older than 6000 years. Chances are, the theory will stay that way for the forseeable future.

[alsouthster]

Holy cow! (no offense to anyone!) Too funny and too cool to come here to see if anyone has made the Atmega devolve to a level that I could make it work only to find an incredible discussion on ID and evolution. Can't resist chipping in my two spinning and evolving cents: a) Besides the fact that ID is faith-based nonsense (oops, showed my card), the MAIN problem with ID right now is that certain chauvinistic parties are trying to shove it down other people's throats under the guise that it is &quot;science.&quot; Kinda like what mili said in post #1 b) Good god, lower case intentional, you would think that folks who spend so much time hanging around a board devoted to &quot;testing&quot; would have some idea of how scientific theories EVOLVE. c) A common objection to, um...evolution, physics, modern science in general.....is the argument known as &quot;Ye verily what came before the Big Bang&quot; ??? Friggin stop for a second reading up on the latest complicated manouevers on how to steal sattelite Tv and then feeling gulity about it and wearing a hairshirt and instead.. ....try reading up on some of the recent theories that some of these mofo physicists are coming up with. EG: Brian Greene &quot;The Elegant Universe:, Lisa Randall &quot;Warped Passages&quot;, to name just two popular and readable intros into the wiggly world of string theory, branes, and the 7 extra (or maybe more) dimensions that may or may not compose our &quot;reality&quot; Oh yeah, just as a pointer, here's something that IS debatable : That the version of Can I Get A Witness by the Stones is better than the version by Marvin Gaye. Here's something that IS NOT debatable: That ID is in any way a theory that in any stretch of our apelike reptilian- descended imaginations compares in any way to the theory of evolution, which is one of the crowning and supreme and most important achievements of humanity guess you can see which side I'm on

[crosshair]

hmm. I find all of this facinating. So far we have multiple stories to believe, pick one (or none).


1. The bible - which implies all other religions are false
2. Other religious books - which are equally as right/wrong as the bible
3. Darwin / Evolution
4. Intelligent Design
5. External interference / seeding


I can usually cause quite a stir by asking the religious nuts to explain why all other religions must be false. If all religions are based on a book translated multiple times by people(s) that could barely read & write, why must we believe every single word as fact. For those who claim it should be 'paraphrased and interpreted' I ask why then do you belive any of it? If you took the 10 religious leaders of the world and sat them in the same room, at least 9 of them must be wrong (because they all claim they are the one and only). I claim that the possibility exists that 10 of them might be wrong.


The biggest question is about ID and Todd (actually the name rhymes with Todd). How about space aliens? If you believe it must be ID, then why must it be a mystical god-like creature? Could our landing on Mars and other planets cause life to start there (via unintentional interference) ? Are 'we' not the god to those worlds? Could life on earth have started through some visitation a LONG time ago?

It is unfortunate that believers of #1 are trying to push #4 as a backdoor into #1.


For the record, I can stomach Darwin without too much difficulty but I wonder about the possibility of planetary seeding via simple facts such asteriods/meteorites, not unlike the maple seeds that travel every year.
Whoa.....
Thee above post, is by the far the most inteligent...and logical statements, i have witnessed!
hell yeh!!
religion...beleiving in something that can't be proven.....

[crosshair]

hmmmmmmmm...
I was raised catholic...
not now...although I'am sure the unpunished ..so far..priests are innocent!
I believe one dude created earth in 7 days...like i beleive in the big bang theory!
both possible....but.
if we have this planet with all these strange things...people...emus...
squids...moles...you see...:D
why can't there be another planet or 12?
another galaxy..another year.

and if we do find the "ark" just an empty boat right? cept' for the unicorns.
:D
if there are other forms of life....and they are more advanced....
meeting your maker has A whole new meaning!:D

[JT]

It looks like we may have to agree to disagree on this one. However, as long as we do it in a mature and none violent manner that’s all right. As adults, we should be able to discuss our opinions and still have a beer afterwards without thinking bad about each other because one of us didn’t change his opinion. I believe that’s one of the things that God wants us to do and I served this country because I believe that’s one of the biggest fundamental principles and rights we have here. The constitution gives us the right to worship or not worship as we see fit. The religion based contributors to this thread needs to remember a couple of biblical teachings like turn the other cheek and thou who is without sin cast the first stone and before getting pissed about this and those that are agnostic or atheistic based should remember that were all entitled to our own opinion whether we think it right or wrong without fear of reprisal so long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of those that differ in thought.
To show no hard feelings about any of this on my part, have a cold one or two on me while your watching TV tonight.
No hard feelings here Keltic. Your always pretty reasonable when it comes to disagreements; more so than I most of the time. :eek: Wish I wasn't snowed in so I could go and get some brews myself. Oh well, there's always tomorrow. In case you guys couldn't tell, I have very strong opinions about the ID/creationism vs. evolution debate. I have two BS's and an MS....in all three cases the 'S' stands for science. That's where I'm coming from. If I tried to use the notion of ID in my work none of my experiments would end up making any sense. Have a drink on me Keltic and everyone else I've offended in this thread. I can't right now, but you can bet I'll be doing just that tomorrow. :D:cool:

[Bandit5906]

When the first human being began to write, he or she set the world upon a new evolution. Similarly, if a few individuals have the strength and the power to walk way from the restrictions of the world and to stand fearlessly beyond it, eventually in some distant millennium, all mankind will also come to that same liberation. It will be a special pleasure for you to look back, poised in some place in eternity, and know that you were there at the beginning of the movement. Your gift was that you realized at an early stage that you were indeed eternal, immortal, and infinite, and that you had the courage to walk with that idea in your heart while the rest of mankind said that such a limitless overview wasn't true or even possible." (Stuart Wilde)

Consider the possabilities?

[wasup]

The law of biogenesis states that life can come only from preexisting life! It is an absolute LAW! Louis Pasteur, and another scientist named Lamarke, absolutely disproved the theory of spontaneous generation back in the 19th Century. To this day, scientists agree that spontaneous generation is categorically IMPOSSIBLE! The law of biogenesis states that life comes from preexisting life. Life cannot come from dead matter! No life simply comes into existence by itself! Who, then, brought life into existence?
Since life cannnot spontaneously come into existence, the only logical conclusion is that life must have been CREATED! There is no other logical explanation or conclusion!
The first great proof of the existence of the all wise, all powerful Creator is the scientific LAW OF BIOGENESIS! God is the great Lifegiver, for He alone is IMMORTAL, has life inherent within Himself, and able to give life. God created all life. The theory of evolution, which postulates that one species leaped over into another species and gradually over a period of millions and billions of years, became other life forms is simply an unprovable preposterous theory! Indeed, the DNA molecule suggests that such a transference of life from one species to another is scientifically impossible.
Its is simply imossible for life to have gradually come into existence out of NOTHING! Life was created. Life was created by a great Creator God! There is no other logical conclusion!

credited to David J Smith

[JT]

You can put some lifeless enzymes into a test tube with the right protiens and just through the magic of chemical structure they can reproduce themselves. Is this life? It is thought that DNA began it's own creation in much the same way in the primordial soup. When DNA reproduces itself it's much the result of it's structure and chemical make up as it is anything else.

Refer back to skinerds post. If there is an intelligent designer, who created the designer? It's a circular arguement.

[Astro]

Clownv you are right God did create all those other people. any true believer would tell you that. It had something to do with a tower and God make the people speak diffrent languages. What it really comes down to was Jesus Christ the True Savior? I believe he was and There are many Diffrent Verses in the Bible written to prove it. THe Holy Bible is the Greatest Novel To ever have been written, And just think it was not just one Author but aproximately 35 diffrent people that wrote it. However they all back each other up. and think they was all from diffrent countries that means diffrent languages....... There were over a hundred "books" to the christian bible. But only the ones that made up a story that convinced people to keep handing over their worldly posessions to the priests were included in the bible. The "stories" of how one is to be subserviant to the "word of god" (translate to The Priests), is at best, slavery by deception. To threaten your very life if you don't conform is very much like Hitler, Stalin, and other absolute rulers. Then you get the sick, perverted bastards that used the "in the name of God" to kill what they believed to be witches in Salem.. You know, the famous Salem Witch Hunt.. And before that "the crusades" in which the christians murdured many innocent people.. Now this notion that Jesus of Nazareth is the "one true savior" is just another story to maintain the priests income. The "church" was losing attendance and had to come up with something to get the people back (and give tithing).. Well, low and behold came the story of the messiah! But if you look back, that story was started about 300 years AFTER the supposed messiah lived.. There are no "eyewitness accounts" as the bible would have you believe.. And as you probably already know, the "Christmas" was taken from the Pagan celebration of Yule! The rebirth of the SUN where the light wins out over the dark (winter solstus). But the Pagans do NOT think of the dark as evil. Only the christians by making god the "light" and dark the "evil" Our current calender puts Yule around Dec. 21. While the christians put Christmas on Dec. 25.. A coincidence? Think so? Then how about Easter? The Pagan "God of Fertility" celebrates the bringing of life (you know how bunnies breed, hence the Easter Bunny), while the christians use it to celebrate the "resurrection of Jesus". Did you know how the Easter is determined? What day it is? Well gee, if it really was the resurrection, then it would be a set day. Wouldn't you think? Like christmas is always the 25th? The truth is that Easter is determined by the Pagans! It's always the 1st Sunday after the full moon, right after the spring Equinox... Just another stolen "celebration" by the christians from the Pagans. Oh, by the way, Satan is a fabrication of the christians. And they keep "him" alive and well just so you "keep to the right path"... ...more to come later.. ;-)

[quazievil]

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, ofcourse, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rateat which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must be true, and thus I am sure Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over.

The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct...leaving only Heaven thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A"

[realfire]

Adam had a hell of a run

Adam
930 years old when he died
0----how old the earth was when born
930---died in the year 930
130--age he was when his son seth was born
according to
Gen. 5:3-5

heres noah, you know the ark guy, hee hee
Noah
950 years old when he died
1056 how old the earth was when born
2006 how old the earth was when he died
500---had a son @ 500 years old
Gen. 5:32

Using any secular history, look up the date when Solomon reigned. This will be in the area of 1015-975 b. c. If you like, you can go through the books of I and II Kings and prove that Israel went into bondage to the Assyrians in 722 B. C. and Judah went into bondage to Babylon in 606 B. C.

Because we know from secular history that Solomon reigned about 1,000 years before Christ, we can add 1,000 years to 2,991 (the age of the earth when Solomon began to reign) and you get 3991 (the approximate age of the earth when Christ was born.)

I think everybody knows it is approximately 2005 years the time of Christ until now. So add 2005 years to 3991 and you get 5996 That is pretty close to 6,000 years.

It is very clear, is it not, that the Bible proves the age of the universe to be approximately 6,000 years old.

[spert]

Quazievil,
that has to be the best religious article I have ever read! Probably makes more sense than most - LOL.

[Morpheux]

1. By year 1 AD the population of the Roman Empire, according to the census was about 45 million.

2. Scientist estimate the whole world population to had been about 300,000,000 people (add the whole of asia, the pacific islands, africa, and the americas which werent counted by the romans).

= there's no way that in 2000 years from the flood to 1 AD, out of noah and his kids (the only people left alive at that point), the population would have grown so rapidly (unless of course people had rabbit dna back in the day, and there being no TV and hacked dish, there was nothing better to do that have sex all day with as many women as you could).

[realfire]

1. By year 1 AD the population of the Roman Empire, according to the census was about 45 million.
2. Scientist estimate the whole world population to had been about 300,000,000 people (add the whole of asia, the pacific islands, africa, and the americas which werent counted by the romans).
= there's no way that in 2000 years from the flood to 1 AD, out of noah and his kids (the only people left alive at that point), the population would have grown so rapidly (unless of course people had rabbit dna back in the day, and there being no TV and hacked dish, there was nothing better to do that have sex all day with as many women as you could).


damn, common sense prevails again

[mili]

That is one HORNY line of Adams

mili

[Trapofmind]

It's blatantly obvious you never took any science courses at a college level. You should stick to your book of faith. It's pretty clear you've put the time in on that. I don't pretend to know anything about the bible, you shouldn't pretend to know anything about science.

Of your two statements, I will receive that latter and say: thanx.

Of the former, I only offer this: I try my best to speak on laymen's terms so as not to confuse any free TV'r.

It seems your time in college was long ago. I am certainly not meaning that as any form of insult, only that present evolutionists try to avoid the bacteria discussion, since we've learned so much more about what is actually happening in the lab.

To anyone else who has bacteria on the brain (figuratively speaking, of course) and have 1 minute and 35 seconds to spare check out the link below:

Bacteria - a fear of evolutionists?
hxxp://www.answersingenesis.org/AnswersMedia/play.aspx?mediaID=020404_ans

[Hack@d]

Refer back to skinerds post. If there is an intelligent designer, who created the designer? It's a circular arguement.

Not really, it is like saying infinity is not possible since there has to be an outside.
Why does the creator have to come from something ? If the big bang is not a stretch nothing->inifity then why is God so hard for you to accept ?

This refers back to my original comment that humans, at our current intellectual level, just cannot grasp what they can't explain and since they can't explain it therefore it is not possible.

[realfire]

Not really, it is like saying infinity is not possible since there has to be an outside.
Why does the creator have to come from something ? If the big bang is not a stretch nothing->inifity then why is God so hard for you to accept ?
This refers back to my original comment that humans, at our current intellectual level, just cannot grasp what they can't explain and since they can't explain it therefore it is not possible.

I for one, can except God, I think of him sort of, say like Samatha on the old tv show Bewitched, just wiggle the nose & its done

I am more fascinated with Noah busting a nut @ the age of 500

[Morpheux]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT
Refer back to skinerds post. If there is an intelligent designer, who created the designer? It's a circular arguement.
__________________________________________________ ______________

We could also argue that, if we came from a big bang, what created the singularity in the first place?

[fubr]

ok 10 thousand eons ago something happened to start the evolution.
WHERE did the energy or matter come from to start with?
What does the experts say to that. or is that just something the scientist decide to avoid?

[realfire]

nope, 6000 years ago god created Adam who lived to be 930 years old, he gave up one of his ribs to hook up with a chick named Eve

Eve could not be trusted, she let a snake talk her into taking an apple, makes sense to me

wonder what kind of snake it was? bet it was a cottonmouth, they can't be trusted

[smilingjack]

Can't trust them women

I knew one named betty, had a rubber snake she used for a dildo

[Cimba]

Can't trust them women

Your right, imagine: The poor snake being blamed for that conniving Eve. They always find a way to get ourselves in trouble. :rolleyes: :eek: ;)

[fubr]

Can't trust them women
I knew one named betty, had a rubber snake she used for a dildo
ToShort wrote a song called blow job betty wonder if it is her

[Bandit5906]

Can't trust them women
I knew one named betty, had a rubber snake she used for a dildo

My sister told me you could't keep a secret, but I defended you!

[wasup]

Adam had a hell of a run

Adam
930 years old when he died
0----how old the earth was when born
930---died in the year 930
130--age he was when his son seth was born
according to
Gen. 5:3-5

heres noah, you know the ark guy, hee hee
Noah
950 years old when he died
1056 how old the earth was when born
2006 how old the earth was when he died
500---had a son @ 500 years old
Gen. 5:32

Using any secular history, look up the date when Solomon reigned. This will be in the area of 1015-975 b. c. If you like, you can go through the books of I and II Kings and prove that Israel went into bondage to the Assyrians in 722 B. C. and Judah went into bondage to Babylon in 606 B. C.

Because we know from secular history that Solomon reigned about 1,000 years before Christ, we can add 1,000 years to 2,991 (the age of the earth when Solomon began to reign) and you get 3991 (the approximate age of the earth when Christ was born.)

I think everybody knows it is approximately 2005 years the time of Christ until now. So add 2005 years to 3991 and you get 5996 That is pretty close to 6,000 years.

It is very clear, is it not, that the Bible proves the age of the universe to be approximately 6,000 years old.

Not all Christians believe the earth is six thousand years old. Thats why God told Adam to REPLENISH the earth. The earth was recreated after it became formless. Between verse 1 and 2 of Genesis 1 is where this time passed.

Now, we will not base proofs of the Creator's existence on religious faith. Instead, we can prove scientifically beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there must be a great Creator God, who made the vast, limitless universe and created all life on this planet.
Did life evolve from simple to complex? According to the theory of evolution, all animal life - and human life- on this planet evolved from single-celled animals. The simplest single-celled animal is the amoeba. The question is, where do evolutionists get their amoeba? Where did the amoeba - the very first amoeba - originate? Evolution postulates that life gradually evolved from preexistant nonlife. But can the living come from the not-living? Where did the first life come from? What about the theory of spontaneous generation? Could life have spontaneously come into existence out of nothing? From the inanitmate?
NO! -- as Science itself PROVES!

THE EXISTENCE OF MATTER
Scientests know there has been no past eternity of matter. Radioactivity is described by scientists as a gradual process of disintergration of matter. For example, uranium is a radioactive element which, when decomposing, gradually becomes the element known as radium. But then the disintegration continues in radium. Radium gradually becomes the element lead. Of course, this happens over a period of thousands of years. Nevertheless, if matter has always existed, then matter has been around long enough to have gradually disintegrated where there would be no radioactivity in existence today. Yet uranium and other radioactive elements continue to exist. Therefore we know there has been no past eternity of matter! Scientists speculate that the earth and perhaps the rest of the universe is apporximately four and one-half billion years of age. There are a number of different methods of determining the age of the earth. Through radiometric dating, meteorites in rocks on the moon have also been dated. Scientists continue to come up with the date, four and one-half billion years. This is an approximate age of our part of the universe.
Where did matter com from? Matter is defined as anything that has weight and takes up space. Basically we can say, anything that is physical or material is matter. Where did the molecules that make up matter come from? We know that the molecules in our physical universe ard comprised of atoms. If the theory of evolution is true, then all the molecules in existence must have gradually evolved from preexisting atoms. Since everything supposedly evolved from simple to complex, then all atoms gradually evolved from the simplest atoms. The simplest unit of matter is the hydrogen atom which contains one proton for its nucleus and one electron revolving around the proton. Theoretically, all molecules and all atoms would have gradually evolved from the hydrogen atom.
QUESTION!! Where did the evolutionists get the hydrogen atom to start the process of "evolution"?
If there is no Creator, how did the huydrogen atom GRADUALLY come into existence out of NOTHING?! Can your intelligent mind believe such a thing? Such a concept is irrational and illogical to the thinking mind! The only logical conclusion is that some power or Someone had to do the creating. If you can be logical enough to understand that matter cannot come into existence all by itself, then you must admit there had to be a First Cause. And that great "First Cause" is GOD. The Law of the conservation of energy and matter states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. If, as scientists say, matter cannot be created, then WHERE did matter come from? How did matter, the molecules and atoms that make up our physical and chemical existence, come into existence the first time? Scientists know that matter is not being created today. Where, then, did matter originate? The only logical conclusion again, is that there must be a CREATOR who created matter in the physical universe! There is no other rational conclusion. CREATION then proves the existence of a great Creator! And the Creator is the True God!

[badger6]

nope, 6000 years ago god created Adam who lived to be 930 years old, he gave up one of his ribs to hook up with a chick named Eve

Eve could not be trusted, she let a snake talk her into taking an apple, makes sense to me

wonder what kind of snake it was? bet it was a cottonmouth, they can't be trusted

This is a great example of how the original translation changes over time. We all know about the apple and the snake, but before that it was serpent and fruit. What was it before that ???, and so on and so on. How many litte changes does it take before the whole meaning is "lost in translation"??? There were words and phrases thousands of years ago that we don't have words for today and vice versa. The bible was written by humans to 1.- Control other humans 2.- Deal with the fact that the are going to be worm bait. 3.- Create hope that there is a future after death while dying a slow death from the day of birth. Humans beings want to feel important, they don't want it to end, but they know it will, so they create things to make themselves feel better. The joke is on all of us because in 75 years no one will know who the fuck you were and no one will care, unless you are rich or famous. And even then I doubt it, when is the last time anyone here thought of Benjamin Guggenheim or Shemp Howard of the 3 stooges, I think you get my point. There may be a higher being or intelligence but it is not of the fairy tale variety.

[wasup]

This is a great example of how the original translation changes over time. We all know about the apple and the snake, but before that it was serpent and fruit. What was it before that ???, and so on and so on. How many litte changes does it take before the whole meaning is "lost in translation"??? There were words and phrases thousands of years ago that we don't have words for today and vice versa. The bible was written by humans to 1.- Control other humans 2.- Deal with the fact that the are going to be worm bait. 3.- Create hope that there is a future after death while dying a slow death from the day of birth. Humans beings want to feel important, they don't want it to end, but they know it will, so they create things to make themselves feel better. The joke is on all of us because in 75 years no one will know who the fuck you were and no one will care, unless you are rich or famous. And even then I doubt it, when is the last time anyone here thought of Benjamin Guggenheim or Shemp Howard of the 3 stooges, I think you get my point. There may be a higher being or intelligence but it is not of the fairy tale variety.

The earliest manuscripts are available. They dont throw them away for new translations. There never was an apple. True Christians are those that humble themselves, not to be famous but they are the foolish ones of the earth. Not at all wise in their own eyes but only looking forward to a new government on earth where justice will prevail.
Its the non Christians who answer to themselves as to what is right or wrong. Your God is who you serve. What do you serve? Yourself?

[badger6]

The earliest manuscripts are available. They dont throw them away for new translations. There never was an apple. True Christians are those that humble themselves, not to be famous but they are the foolish ones of the earth. Not at all wise in their own eyes but only looking forward to a new government on earth where justice will prevail.
Its the non Christians who answer to themselves as to what is right or wrong. Your God is who you serve. What do you serve? Yourself?
We all serve ourselves, it is human nature !!! To decide between right and wrong is not a biblical issue, it is an issue of common sense !!! We all do right and we all do wrong and the bible has nothing to do with it !!!

[ghost71799]

Shimp Howard, the three stooges, now you are comming down to Earth.

Now I am feeling sorry for what I said the other day.:o

ghost

[badger6]

Well thanks ghost, will you now be friends with the dumbfuck

[badger6]

Damn, just noticed you in MS ghost. Lots of us around here lately. We likes our free TV huh ??

[ghost71799]

Only if you can be friends with a stupid fuck?

ghost

[toober]

OK, ater reading all the posts in this thread I have yet to see my question asked or answered, so I will ask. It's really a multi-part question that has had me perplexed for a while now.

How old was God when he created the universe?

If you believe in an infinate God, then by the definition of infinity, he never created the universe. Like asking "What's infinity minus one?"

If God is not infinate and did create the universe, who created God?

Figure this one out for me and I can deal with all the rest of it.

[ghost71799]

It says in the King James version that God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end and he is the I am.

ghost

[ghost71799]

Damn, just noticed you in MS ghost. Lots of us around here lately. We likes our free TV huh ??

MS whats that?:D

Ghost

[Morpheux]

As old as the universe I guess, since time was noexistant before the Bang, see, time, is a consequence of our universe, andprobably does not exist outside of it.

[wasup]

OK, ater reading all the posts in this thread I have yet to see my question asked or answered, so I will ask. It's really a multi-part question that has had me perplexed for a while now.

How old was God when he created the universe?

If you believe in an infinate God, then by the definition of infinity, he never created the universe. Like asking "What's infinity minus one?"

If God is not infinate and did create the universe, who created God?

Figure this one out for me and I can deal with all the rest of it.

My guess is there is no time when concerning the Creator of the universe, only with our feeble minds.
You got to weigh the evidence for both sides:

Creation: evidence found in the Law of Biogenesis, The Existence of Matter, The Law of Physics, All Laws Being Sustained, The Great Design in Nature, The Inspiration of the Bible, Answered Prayer .....

Evolution: Alot of blind faith.....

your questions are foolish and your better off blinded. For the carnal mind does not undersatand the things of God nor can it do so. Many are called but few are choosen. Got chooses you, you don't choose Him.
The church of wasup is now letting out, eveybody hug the guy next to you. :p

[wasup]

We all serve ourselves, it is human nature !!! To decide between right and wrong is not a biblical issue, it is an issue of common sense !!! We all do right and we all do wrong and the bible has nothing to do with it !!!

Christians are told to die to themselves and serve the one and only Creator. Right and wrong is not the same for everyone, common sense has nothing to do with right or wrong. The bible was written to confuse those who are not serious about God. If God wanted you to know all things He would do it, snap. Your heart must be right and willing to serve Him only first. But the heart of man is wicked by nature. Its not easy being a Christian, the world will hate you, Satan hates you.
Im done:rolleyes:

[Astro]

Christians are told to die to themselves and serve the one and only Creator. Right and wrong is not the same for everyone, common sense has nothing to do with right or wrong. The bible was written to confuse those who are not serious about God. If God wanted you to know all things He would do it, snap. Your heart must be right and willing to serve Him only first. But the heart of man is wicked by nature. Its not easy being a Christian, the world will hate you, Satan hates you.
Im done:rolleyes: Common sense has everything to do with knowing the difference between right and wrong. The Navajo, Susquehannoc, Iriquois, Seneca, etc. in North America never even heard of the christian god, yet lived very peacefully. And the Inca and Mayan civilizations, are they all in Hell because they didn't take the Christ into their hearts? Since the christian god is a jealous god, what is he jealous of? The other gods? The other creators? Since Satan only hates christians, is he a christian himself? The christians created Satan as the evil one so they could justify killing people as being "posessed by satan". If god wanted us to know everything, then he would be god no more.. And if the "heart of man" is wicked by nature, then every newborn baby is born of Satan? The christian bible was definitely written to confuse people so the priests can bamboozle you into giving them your worldly posessions.. Why else would the biblical churches be sitting on tons of food and be adorned in gold while poor people sat outside starving to death?

[badger6]

Good point astro. Another thing that I often wonder about. If the bible says that god is perfect, and that god is a jealous god, and that jealousy is a sin. Huh, say what, that makes no fuckin sense at all. Hows that for a contradiction.

[smilingjack]

Why else would the biblical churches be sitting on tons of food and be adorned in gold while poor people sat outside starving to death?

Another thing that I often wonder about. If the bible says that god is perfect, and that god is a jealous god, and that jealousy is a sin.

They are all still sitting on mountains of gold, the Vatican is worth more than several (other) Countries and is worth billions, yet they ask YOU to donate money to feed the poor (and at least 30% of what you donate gets to them the rest goes to the churches)

And the Bible also says killing is bad but then maybe genocide is not considered murder or killing after all who killed OFF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, your fucking GOD. Drowned the lot.

[badger6]

This thread seems to be losing steam. Shall we stir the pot of shit again and see what comes out ?????? Woo Hoo, ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[playme1979]

goddamn rightwing conspiracy going thats whats happening , f#cking george bush and his CHRISTIAN ways decides to kill innocent people in the name of god. you think that will work badger

[smilingjack]

Innocent ?

Fucking arabs have been killing christians for 2,000 years in the name of their God.

What works for them works for us too.

Don't waste our troops Bush !!!

Nuke them all and send them to allah and make them happy.
It's what they want anyway.

911

[Astro]

This thread seems to be losing steam. Shall we stir the pot of shit again and see what comes out ?????? Woo Hoo, ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. It seems that every time someone points out the facts, those of "blind faith" quiet down a bit. ;-)

[Astro]

goddamn rightwing conspiracy going thats whats happening , f#cking george bush and his CHRISTIAN ways decides to kill innocent people in the name of god. you think that will work badger Let me get this right playme1979... You hate George Bush... Hmmm... I suppose you're one of those left radicals that actually believe the right radicals blew up the twin towers just to get the U.S. into a war? Was that so the right wing George Bush could satisfy his lust for blood? He did NOT say "in the name of god" at ANY time! That would make it a "holy war".. We ain't in no steenkin holy war! Have you forgotten already about the 3000 innocent people that were killed on Sept. 11 "in the name of allah"??? How about the previous attempts to level the towers?? What do you think your Liberals would have done? Sue them? Protest them? What would have happened if the coward Al Gore was in office? Yes, he fled to Canada to avoid the draft.. And Mr. flip-flop John Kerry? The "I protest" guy? I hate to ponder where the world would be right now..

[Nigel]

I don't agree with Mili on a lot of things but he's bang on on this one. My brother has a hat that shows the bible on one side and the koran on the other and says, "Weapons of mass destruction". Religion is responsible for more deaths since civilization began than any other cause.
Evolution shows me the facts, Intelligent Design tries to skirt around them.
What would you do if your best friend confided in you that he believes in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus? Try to dissuade him I would think. Why treat the belief in God or Allah any different? If you can't show me anything concrete then you are wasting my time and yours.

[Astro]

Innocent ?

Fucking arabs have been killing christians for 2,000 years in the name of their God.

What works for them works for us too.

Don't waste our troops Bush !!!

Nuke them all and send them to allah and make them happy.
It's what they want anyway.

911 Hell SJ, they've been killing themselves for over 5000 years! Just in the past 2000 years since the christians came about have they killed christians.. ;-) They have perverted their own Koran (bible for those of you that are blind) to justify their murdurous ways.. Fundamentalist Muslims and Christians hate their women so bad, they'd sooner stone them to death than forgive them. After all, both the Koran and christian bible talk of forgiveness.. No wait, that's just to forgive your enemies, not your wife! Why is it that these "religions" have to have the Man as being dominanant over the rest of the world? Is it the lust for power? No wait! Isn't lust a sin? Man, my head is spinning.. ;-)

[Astro]

I don't agree with Mili on a lot of things but he's bang on on this one. My brother has a hat that shows the bible on one side and the koran on the other and says, &quot;Weapons of mass destruction&quot;. Religion is responsible for more deaths since civilization began than any other cause.
Evolution shows me the facts, Intelligent Design tries to skirt around them.
What would you do if your best friend confided in you that he believes in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus? Try to dissuade him I would think. Why treat the belief in God or Allah any different? If you can't show me anything concrete then you are wasting my time and yours. If their "gods" are supposed to be peaceful gods, and preach forgiveness, then why are they so eager to kill one another? If one was to look through history with open minds, you will find that the most murderous of all religions have been the so called Christians.. Since they created Satan, they've justified killing not in the "name of God", but of Satan. They have to kill Satan! And the only way to remove Satan from you is to kill you.. How sad it is to be of Blind Faith... Hey, if you're a devout Christian, have at it! All I ask is you do it with your EYES OPEN before trying to preach it to me.. Have the answers to questions, not quote scripture and call it "the answer". The Santa Clause tradition came from Germany and it is in the spirit of giving gifts to needy people. It has NOTHING to do with Christians.. The Easter Bunny is a representation of fertility in the spring for the bringing forth of life. We all know how fast bunnies breed! ;-) It's a Pagan belief and has NOTHING to do with Christians.. So in the spirit, I believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!

[ghost71799]

Alot of children born in the world today look like a relative of the past, with that said have you heard of a human giving birth to a monkey?

If we have ways of understanding what a monkey says, have you heard a monkey say it believes in God?

ghost:D

[hughnohoo]

I was going to post here, but decided the flat earth crowd wouldn't be swayed anyway. As long as they don't force their beliefs on me, they can worship anything they want. Hey, the US is #22 in terms of education quality in the world already....yes, we CAN get more ignorant, and they proudly do so.

[realfire]

all I want to know is who believes that Noah had a child @ the age of 500

don't let common sense get in the away of a good fairy tale

it all started with them damn ACLU leftwing ronnie raygun hatin' lib-er-al Flintstones

[RaceFan409]

Just a little food for thought: If Christians are wrong and the non-believers are right at the end of our lives, I can't see that we're any worse off than the non-believers. Can non-believers say the same thing if they're wrong and the Bible happens to be right?? You're going to spend eternity somewhere and it's your choice to decide where it is. Personally I like air-conditioning.

[beanerspeed]

Something to think about ? Do you know that if you take a clock apart all let say 150 pieces, put them in a paper bag shake them long enough in the bag in will reassemble itself by law of chances write ? it will in theory, now taking that into consideration it is infinity times harder for all the write chemicals to come into place for a single celled animal to happen, duh ! ! ! freaken single cell let alone us, check out what the man says who discovered the double helix ( DNA) mathematically impossible, last time I checked you can not argue about math as a fact, Please evolution, I know I am dumb as a bag of rocks, but evolution not possible mathematically no matter how many millions of years, Do the math;)

[badger6]

Just a little food for thought: If Christians are wrong and the non-believers are right at the end of our lives, I can't see that we're any worse off than the non-believers. Can non-believers say the same thing if they're wrong and the Bible happens to be right?? You're going to spend eternity somewhere and it's your choice to decide where it is. Personally I like air-conditioning.
If you believe in god because you are scared of going to hell, you are not a real christian. You should believe in god because it is the right thing to do as set forth by the bible and because you have faith in god and the bible. The above statement is a common thing christians say, but it is an invalid argument. When I point this out to them they ususlly start to crawfish and come up with other reasons to believe. To err on the side of caution to avoid going to hell is a bunk reason to have blind faith. Lets start crawfishin'.

[realfire]

you do the math, Noah 500 years old with a hardon still shooting a load

you want to attack evolution, I'm more interested in the stories in the bible

[badger6]

Something to think about ? Do you know that if you take a clock apart all let say 150 pieces, put them in a paper bag shake them long enough in the bag in will reassemble itself by law of chances write ? it will in theory, now taking that into consideration it is infinity times harder for all the write chemicals to come into place for a single celled animal to happen, duh ! ! ! freaken single cell let alone us, check out what the man says who discovered the double helix ( DNA) mathematically impossible, last time I checked you can not argue about math as a fact, Please evolution, I know I am dumb as a bag of rocks, but evolution not possible mathematically no matter how many millions of years, Do the math;)
No one knows now or ever will. The fact of the matter is that we are here and we are going away in the future. In the big scheme of things human life is pointless. Its pointless anyways. Your born, you fuck off for x amount of time and then you kick the bucket. Woo fuckin hoo, your still dead in the end. No one can prove evolution, god, ID, or the sasquatch. So eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow you will die.

:)Have a nice day:)

[realfire]

No one knows now or ever will. The fact of the matter is that we are here and we are going away in the future. In the big scheme of things human life is pointless. Its pointless anyways. Your born, you fuck off for x amount of time and then you kick the bucket. Woo fuckin hoo, your still dead in the end. No one can prove evolution, god, ID, or the sasquatch. So eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow you will die.

:)Have a nice day:)



eat drink & be merry you say, it's hard on sunday, CAN'T EVEN WALK IN A STORE AND BUY A FUCKIN' 12 PACK, because the fuckin' baptists in certain areas & some states, GEORGIA have to push their bush lovin' bullshit down our throats

for christ sakes (get it, hee hee) bush belongs to I think a methodist church in texas that considers dancin' a sin, my motto is fuck dancin' lets fuck, but that is some ignorant shit

I don't give a shit if people go to church 7 days a week as long as it does not effect others, but it does effect others

[beanerspeed]

Badger6 How in the world did you get out of my post that I was afraid to go to hell, I talked about math you talked crap, hey remember the word science that is what everybody is talking about, when you talk science it is always to your advantage when a Christian talks science it is crap, but do not forget how much of a hypocrite's we are ? DUH ! ! ! BY THE WAY I AM NOT AFRAID OF GOING TO HELL, HOW ABOUT YOU ! ! YOU TALK LIKE A SCARED PERSON WITHOUT DIRECTION:rolleyes:

[Twostep]

If all you want to do on Sunday as lay around, fuck and get drunk, then maybe you need a dose of George Bush...:eek: or maybe you need to move your ass out of the fine state of Georgia.

How about San Francisco, where one can smoke dope and screw on the courthouse lawn....the ACLU's got your back....NRA ain't allowed within the city limits....if you're gay, you've flat got the world by the nuts....9th circuit court of appeals in your backyard....shit, who needs God and heaven when you've got heaven on earth, right here in northern California ?:rolleyes:

All you athiests posting in this thread who insist on labeling any church - and all Christians - as a bunch of murdering hypocrites will have to excuse me, as I drift slightly from my path of righteousness:) while I politely ask the entire bunch of you to go royally fuck yourselves.

Well, someone wanted the pot stirred:D