one chip emulator

[mo-fo]

Just getting started. From reading it sounds like the one chip eumulator is the way to go. Is this correct?

I need someone to steer me in the right direction. I haven't built a board before but if there is some documentation on how to do it I'm sure I can. Unless buying one is cheap and safe. thanks.

[cancom]

Hi

The onechip emulator relies on the AT90S2313 to do RS232 interface work.
[1] 90S2313 was not designed for RS232
[2] It may damaged some receivers as a result
[3] It saves like $2.50 over a max&mel....not worth it.
[4] Plastic cannot be used again

[BudMaNNy55]

Hi

The onechip emulator relies on the AT90S2313 to do RS232 interface work.
[1] 90S2313 was not designed for RS232
[2] It may damaged some receivers as a result
[3] It saves like $2.50 over a max&mel....not worth it.
[4] Plastic cannot be used again

Never had a problem with single chip damaging an IRD. Never had a AT90S2313 go bad from doing a single chip emu. I do them internally with a switch to go between emu and card so card still works. I also make them on a old blacksunday slide in card that goes in the card slot. If you want a two chip style that needs no extra caps try a 1489/atmel style. They also work great to.

[cancom]

Never had a problem with single chip damaging an IRD. Never had a AT90S2313 go bad from doing a single chip emu. I do them internally with a switch to go between emu and card so card still works. I also make them on a old blacksunday slide in card that goes in the card slot. If you want a two chip style that needs no extra caps try a 1489/atmel style. They also work great to.

Hi BudMaNNy55

Yes, I used to test the same setup with MC1489P and AT90S2313.
The 1489 worked great for DTV emu as well....wish we had it back too!
The 1489 didn't work quite as well on Dish as DTV....loss of data on long cable runs.

When mc24 revealed the max&mel for Cemu, which is true RS232, I had to agree 100% with his electronic logic. He also used tantalum caps for the charge pumps on the MAX232s which was not absolutely required but he didn't scimp on quality....A+++++.

cancom

[BGW]

I'd have to vote for the 2-chip setup.
Whether the 1-chip design works for you or not, it still exceeds design parameters for the atmel.
I'll never understand why anyone would not go with as reliable a setup as possible. Surely, it can't be the money saved...... How much is a headache worth?
I find there are enough problems with getting EMU running properly, that I prefer not to add another variable to the mix.
I even spend the couple extra bucks to use a 233 so I don't have to fool with capacitors.
Please don't take offense, as none is intended.
To each his own.
Regards,
BGW

[jimyt]

I agree with you BGW, the 3 chip deal is the thing. Built to last, but it is a LOT of soldering and jumpers (most folks don't have the stuff to make their own boards) as compared to a 1 chip, so I can see how a lot of people would look at the 2 schematics and think, "why not?" And it would probably be quite a task for the 1st time builder as compared to a 1 chip


I built a 1 chip just to see if I could make one work and it did, but you are pushing the limit on something that is running a 100% duty cyle, better a little overkill if you want it to last

Jimyt

PS If all you have handy is enough to make a 1 chip, by all means go for it, while you wait for the shipment from Digi-Key

[cancom]

Yes, you want it to run 100% and last as long as possible....build it like it was meant to be. QUALITY!

[jimyt]

Yep quality

But the 1 chip does work, for those with only some old Dave junk laying around that may have an Atmel in it, that's all you'd need to get started.

For those talking about having trouble finding the parts, you can order from Digi-Key online and have them in a few day., from 1 to 100.

Cheers

Jimyt

[BGW]

For those who can solder, but can't or don't want to make a board, here's what I have done several times:
Get an old dave bs bootloader and remove everything but the atmel chip. Then I drill the 20 holes needed to mount a DIP socket for a Maxim 233 with my dremel tool. (There's plenty of room after the old card socket is removed.)
Next, install the socket securely by bending a few pins over on the bottom of the board. Use an xacto knife to cut any unneeded traces of the original circuit.
After that, just hard wire the circuit together with some 30 gauge wire.
I also mount an RJ phone connector for the cable to the CPU serial port.
The whole thing takes about an hour. Flash the atmel and have fun.

Regards,
BGW

[jimyt]

I would like to see that schematic, I have a single on a Rat Shack board I could add the socket for the 233, never tried one of those

Thanks


Jimyt

[cancom]

Yep quality

But the 1 chip does work, for those with only some old Dave junk laying around that may have an Atmel in it, that's all you'd need to get started.

For those talking about having trouble finding the parts, you can order from Digi-Key online and have them in a few day., from 1 to 100.

Cheers

Jimyt

Digikey, Jameco, etc. all have minimum order charges for orders under approx. $25 plus delivery and taxes:

Here is the Max&Mel parts list from mc24's website with Digikey part# and pricing:

1.05 296-6940-5-ND
0.36 296-2061-5-ND
3.91 AT90S2313-10PI-ND
0.51 A24808-ND
0.57 A24809-ND
0.57 A24810-ND
0.09 1N914TRCT-ND
0.28 10KQBK-ND
0.58 478-1837-ND
2.42 P2059-ND
4.79 V1021-ND [this is 1/4 of $19.16 cost as board makes 4]

15.13 sub total
6.50 handling
8.00 shipping
??? taxes [varies State to State]

$29.63 plus tax

cancom

[moe99]

Where can I get a layout of the 2 chip board. Im good at soldering and has all the tools. This is the part I love most in this hubby, building your own. Thanks for any info. I've built the one chip but would like to try my hands on the 2 chip.

[cancom]

Where can I get a layout of the 2 chip board. Im good at soldering and has all the tools. This is the part I love most in this hubby, building your own. Thanks for any info. I've built the one chip but would like to try my hands on the 2 chip.
Hi moe99
MC24's info is still out there....do a Google. mc24 used Digikey part# V1021-ND. This will make 4 max&mel boards once you cut it....costs $19.16 plus taxes, handling and shipping = +/- $37.50 I found that a little expensive and besides they took forever to solder all the jumpers.
PM me if you'd like one of mine as a kit.

Merry Xmas
cancom

[rubberman]

diagram of 1 chip:

[Skippyboy]

I have seen somewhere on one of these boards that you can also emulate with just a 1489 chip.

Has anyone tried this with success?

[BGW]

Skippyboy,
That just ain't gonna happen. There are simple ways to emulate, but that's reaching too far....
There is no way to put the required data into a 1489. It's just an RS232 interface chip. Remember, the atmel is a microprocessor that is communicating with the IRD at bootup, instead of a smartcard. It provides the proper ATR response.
Regards,
BGW

[moe99]

Hi moe99
MC24's info is still out there....do a Google. mc24 used Digikey part# V1021-ND. This will make 4 max&mel boards once you cut it....costs $19.16 plus taxes, handling and shipping = +/- $37.50 I found that a little expensive and besides they took forever to solder all the jumpers.
PM me if you'd like one of mine as a kit.

Merry Xmas
cancom

I did google on mc24 and come up with some foreign website. Can you supply with some more info?

[cancom]

I
[1] did google on mc24 and come up with some foreign website. Can you supply with some more info?

[2] Where can I get a layout of the 2 chip board. Im good at soldering and has all the tools. This is the part I love most in this hubby, building your own. Thanks for any info. I've built the one chip but would like to try my hands on the 2 chip.

[1] Currently mc24 stuff is here: http://maxmel0.tripod.com/

[2] If your soldering skills are OK I can mail you a double sided max&mel internal pc board 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" that you can just mount the components.
If your skills are GOOD, I also have even smaller pc boards where the max232 and cd4066 as surface mount.

[spacecowboy]

I have an older unit I cant remember what it was called, but its a black box with a 486 CPU in it for emulation. It also comes with a card slot and a cable with a card attached. I never did get it running back in the Dave days. I'm wondering if there's a way to set it up for Charlie? I'll attach 2 pictures of it.... It also says Stealth EMU on the card if that helps.... Thanks....

[spacecowboy]

I finally remembered I have a Cube II. Does anyone know if this will work with N2. If so is anyone using a cube 2 with a working setup? I don't have any N2 cards and the way things look I won't for a while. So any help would be Great !!!!!

[cancom]

I finally remembered I have a Cube II. Does anyone know if this will work with N2. If so is anyone using a cube 2 with a working setup? I don't have any N2 cards and the way things look I won't for a while. So any help would be Great !!!!!

Your Stealth Emu is for DTV emu....Dish ain't gonna fly without an extreme makeover....lol.

As for the DTV CubeII, it is probably worth nil.....gotta love these propriatary gizmos that everyone sells us. Magic cards, AVR1,2,3,4,5s, Atmega, Demu Gold...yes, AVR-X and Syndrome are proprietary and will end up in the trash as well.

Even if DTV emulation is revived, your CUBE may not have ability or the horsepower to decrypt DTV's datastream. It requires "CUBE" proggies and support....isn't going to happen!

Try not to buy anything that requires "Bob's" support because one day Bob will not be there for you. With hardware supported by freeware, like cemu, you usually can't go to far wrong. When in doubt, ask the Mod's what hardware they truly expect will still be useful two years from now.

cancom

[spacecowboy]

Thanks Cancon, I did see a post over at rom10x stating that he was using the first version of a cube. I think he changed something on the card that goes into the receiver tho. I'll see if I can hook up with him and get more info. They say it can be done.... Thanks agn Cancon.....

[mo-fo]

I tried to order all the parts for a MaxMel Board. Digi-Key doesn't have the following any longer:

AT90S2313-10PI-ND Atmel AVR Microcontroller. 20pin DIP
(Obsolete Part )

A24808-ND 14pin through hole DIP socket
(Ship Date Estimate 02/15/2006)

P2059-ND
(Obsolete Part)

MR3050-ND LED: 5V Red, integrated resistor.
(Obsolete Part)

MR3350-ND LED: 5V Yellow, integrated resistor.
(Obsolete Part)

Does anyone have substitute part numbers and a good site to order them?
thanks.

[cancom]

I have more stock than Digikey....lol.

[ruciz]

I tried to order all the parts for a MaxMel Board. Digi-Key doesn't have the following any longer:

AT90S2313-10PI-ND Atmel AVR Microcontroller. 20pin DIP
(Obsolete Part )

A24808-ND 14pin through hole DIP socket
(Ship Date Estimate 02/15/2006)

P2059-ND
(Obsolete Part)

MR3050-ND LED: 5V Red, integrated resistor.
(Obsolete Part)

MR3350-ND LED: 5V Yellow, integrated resistor.
(Obsolete Part)

Does anyone have substitute part numbers and a good site to order them?
thanks.

The LED's can use a run-of-the-mill LED with a 220 ohm resistor in front and you should be fine. The DIP sockets, well you can use almost any size as long as the spacing is correct for the chip, and it has the required number of pins. I think almost all will work, so maybe order a 16, 18 or 22 pin DIP socket - what ever they have thats big enough. Just be sure when you solder to it you solder correctly. As for the atmel AVR, I have no clue what could be substitute that. As long as it has the same inputs and outputs and is programmed the same way any chip should do.. which chip though I am not sure.

[cancom]

Hi Spacecowboy

Your stealth emu looks like it has a single 14pin SMT chip...hard to see. If that is the case it may be a 1489 which was definately DTV.

I don't add the LED to my boards anymore....

http://www.dssftp.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7178&d=1135287880

Light attracted the bugs....lol.

[veronica]

[1] Currently mc24 stuff is here: http://maxmel0.tripod.com/

[2] If your soldering skills are OK I can mail you a double sided max&mel internal pc board 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" that you can just mount the components.
If your skills are GOOD, I also have even smaller pc boards where the max232 and cd4066 as surface mount.

Hello, do you have the full pic of scematic available? I have some boards I want to try and do myself since I had bottle of chemical left over from a long time ago.

[Marvh]

You know, i have seen this same old story about the single chip 2313 and how it is running out of specs and will fry yer ird, or fry the 2313 itself. Simple fact is that it is all hog-wash. I have been running several of em for several years now non stop as have a LOT of other people and absolutely ZERO problems with any of em. I have never personally seen, or personally talked to anyone that has seen the doom and gloom ever occur. No burnt up irds, no burnt up 2313's. They just simply work, and are ny far and above the simplest of any of the emu interfaces to build and setup and get running. Especially true with newcomers to this aspect of the hobby and those that are not professionals when it comes to soldering , making boards etc.. I do make all my own boards that go in the card slot so nothing in the ird is changed so going back to plastic should you so desire is as simple as removing one and putting the ohter in. add an rj-45 jack and a db9 to rj-45 and plane jane phone cord is all that is needed to conect to the computer at distances well over 100 feet. For the more technically inclined, fine, build a more complex unit, they also work just fine, but again, for the newcomer who may not have the same skills, the 2313 single chip is lot easier to build and get running and works flawlessly. At least give em both options and let them decide based on their own skill levels which way to go. Either way they choose,it will work and work very well...

[cancom]

Hi Marvh

If I understand you correctly,

[1] MC24 is an idiot and you are an electronics genius.
[2] Atmel's 90S2313 was designed to perform as an RS232 interface.
[3] External boards do not tramsmit RF in the Emergency Aircraft Bandwidth.

You have never personally been struck by lightening, therefore it never happens?
Theory is when you know how it works but it still doesn't?
Practice is when it works but you don't know why?

Well at least you're in good company.....
"Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." -- Dr. Lee De Forest, inventor of the vacuum tube

Cancom




You know, i have seen this same old story about the single chip 2313 and how it is running out of specs and will fry yer ird, or fry the 2313 itself. Simple fact is that it is all hog-wash. I have been running several of em for several years now non stop as have a LOT of other people and absolutely ZERO problems with any of em. I have never personally seen, or personally talked to anyone that has seen the doom and gloom ever occur. No burnt up irds, no burnt up 2313's. They just simply work, and are ny far and above the simplest of any of the emu interfaces to build and setup and get running. Especially true with newcomers to this aspect of the hobby and those that are not professionals when it comes to soldering , making boards etc.. I do make all my own boards that go in the card slot so nothing in the ird is changed so going back to plastic should you so desire is as simple as removing one and putting the ohter in. add an rj-45 jack and a db9 to rj-45 and plane jane phone cord is all that is needed to conect to the computer at distances well over 100 feet. For the more technically inclined, fine, build a more complex unit, they also work just fine, but again, for the newcomer who may not have the same skills, the 2313 single chip is lot easier to build and get running and works flawlessly. At least give em both options and let them decide based on their own skill levels which way to go. Either way they choose,it will work and work very well...

[Marvh]

Hi Marvh
If I understand you correctly,
[1] MC24 is an idiot and you are an electronics genius.
[2] Atmel's 90S2313 was designed to perform as an RS232 interface.
[3] External boards do not tramsmit RF in the Emergency Aircraft Bandwidth.
You have never personally been struck by lightening, therefore it never happens?
Theory is when you know how it works but it still doesn't?
Practice is when it works but you don't know why?
Well at least you're in good company.....
"Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." -- Dr. Lee De Forest, inventor of the vacuum tube
Cancom

You can go ahead and go off the deep end and rather than discussing it, start attacking. If that is how you feel you have to handle someone that disaggrees with you fine. Guess it makes you feel better about yourself..

Now for some plain simple facts. There are quite literally thousands of single chip 2313's out there that have been running for years. Just a simple fact, but i guess you do not like to be bothered with facts if they don't coincide with your theories.
The proof is in the pudding. Single chip 2313's have been around every since there has been emu, and they worked all the way back then, and they continue to work now. I have several here that have been running non stop every since the onset of emu for dish, and i know of a LOT of people that have been doing the same. If they were nearly as flakey or susceptable to blow up as you seem to think, then i would certainly have had one blow up by now or would have at least heard of someone having one that blew up. All i was saying in original post and am saying agin now, THEY WORK, and they do not blow shit up. Plain Simple Fact.

[110º]

local mom/pop shop .....

$1.95 for 2313 ....$0.25 for 20 pin socket ...$0.29 for 9-pin connector ...plenty of old PC with floppy drive from friends ...

Never a hickup with single chip emu .....total cost $2.49. Never seen a burnt chip nor IRD ...

Priceless against the $139 AVR-X .....

LOL

[cancom]

You can go ahead and go off the deep end and rather than discussing it, start attacking. If that is how you feel you have to handle someone that disaggrees with you fine. Guess it makes you feel better about yourself..
Now for some plain simple facts. There are quite literally thousands of single chip 2313's out there that have been running for years. Just a simple fact, but i guess you do not like to be bothered with facts if they don't coincide with your theories.
The proof is in the pudding. Single chip 2313's have been around every since there has been emu, and they worked all the way back then, and they continue to work now. I have several here that have been running non stop every since the onset of emu for dish, and i know of a LOT of people that have been doing the same. If they were nearly as flakey or susceptable to blow up as you seem to think, then i would certainly have had one blow up by now or would have at least heard of someone having one that blew up. All i was saying in original post and am saying agin now, THEY WORK, and they do not blow shit up. Plain Simple Fact.

Hi Marvh

Sorry if you thought I was going off the deep end. Don't get me wrong, I ran 1 chip emus for a while in about 50 boxes....it seems like an easy out considering the extra effort required to build an mc24 max&mel. Your opinion is just as respected as the next guys....I just happen to question your lack of supporting evidence. FACTS

"Simple fact is that it is all hog-wash"
The object of the game here is to provide a hanshake between the emu computer and the receiver. The 90S2313 is a microcontroller which Atmel maunufactures to SELL for profit. Don't you think they would state, "it can also be used as an RS232 interface", if they thought there wasn't going to be problems?

"as have a LOT of other people "
How many in a LOT? Just because it hasn't happened to YOU yet does NOT mean it won't happen. I have evidence to the contrary.

"...would have at least heard of someone having one that blew up."
I happen to know 4 people that have had IRD problems while running 1 chip emus and numerous more with dead chips. I have only had 4 dead chips.

Mc24's max&mel design provided a balance between expense and good electronics practice. Maybe the object of your post here is to test as cheap as possible and save $2? If so, the 1 chip is it. On the other hand, telling ALL that you have the FACTS and NO ONE will ever have a problem with a 1 chip dying and harming their equipment is just ignorant.

If you can point us all to the datasheet where Atmel states the RS232 ability of their 90S2313 microcontroller chip please enlighten us.

cancom