Why the Hell did my Poll on 019 AVR-X's get CLOSED???? [Archive]

jkmboler

01-16-2006, 05:03 AM

01-16-2006, 05:26 AM

Why the Hell did my Poll on 019 AVR-X's get closed????

Is someone afraid to let people know how many cards are fubared???

Even if some loose nuts with multiple ID's respond to the poll multiple times, at least we will have some idea how big the scope of the problem is!

Right now, we have no idea if this is even a real problem!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Because it was biased would be my guess.

I didn't close that thread, but I will look into it. All that poll would have accomplished is give the overly vocal minority a chance to vote using all their various user id's. That poll would not have worked at all given the way the two options were phrased. If someone had 50 AVR-X's and was having issues with one, and voted according to the criteria you set forth, they would have to vote 'against' the AVR-X.

RS422

01-16-2006, 05:35 AM

bonehead

01-16-2006, 06:01 AM

well, here's my vote.
i have 2 died avrx's, add them to the list.

jkmboler

01-16-2006, 06:11 AM

Because it was biased would be my guess.

I didn't close that thread, but I will look into it. All that poll would have accomplished is give the overly vocal minority a chance to vote using all their various user id's. That poll would not have worked at all given the way the two options were phrased. If someone had 50 AVR-X's and was having issues with one, and voted according to the criteria you set forth, they would have to vote 'against' the AVR-X.

JT:

Your missing the point, I want to know how many dead (019 error) AVR-X's are out there.

Yes, I know there are many that are working fine. I have a 301-13 that is working flawlessly (only a couple of short 3-5 sec freezes every couple of hours).

What I want to know is HOW MANY are dead. 50, 100, 200???

Even if 15 or 20 users have multiple accounts, the poll would still give interesting feed back. I suspect many users have multiple dead cards (I do) and the poll only allows 1 vote per user. So What, I just want a rough idea as to how big (or small) this problem is.

RS422

01-16-2006, 06:21 AM

JT:

Your missing the point, I want to know how many dead (019 error) AVR-X's are out there.

It's ....you ..that is missing the point ....!!!!

01-16-2006, 06:21 AM

Well plan on this one getting shut down or deleted.

#40Fan

01-16-2006, 08:27 AM

Man, I thought that there was a thread already discussing the 019 and that everyone was responding to it.

01-16-2006, 08:37 AM

#40, you are right but for some reason every one desides to cluder the board with the same question, when it has been asked 500 times already. The 019 question is asked every day.

jkmboler

01-16-2006, 04:28 PM

#40

My original post (with a poll) was an attempt to find out how many AVR-X's are DOA with the 019 error.

Understand the numbers:
If you can't measure, you can't control
Bill Hewlett (Hewlett Packard)

Caddylover

01-16-2006, 05:27 PM

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread but is there a fix for the magic card yet??

Caddy

seaboard18

01-16-2006, 05:48 PM

Why doesn't Mili offer to reprogram dead avr-x's that are out of the twenty day warranty period? A simple reprograming of chip would fix 019 error and stop all this negative feedback for product. JT says we enjoy griping but maybe it is just the result of very poor customer support. Now, vodka 019 fix is okay but i'm sure some of us would pay for reprogram if it was offered.

If I remember correctly programmed replacement chips were to be available at a nominal charge of one dollar + shipping.

AVR-X platforms are not the primary source of the freezing problem. However, the freezing problem exist on all testing platforms & in subscribed IRD's as well. Once Charlie comes up with a fix for his stream, freezing issues will disappear or be substantially reduced in testing units.

Warning: There is some code that has been released in the past week or so that if used, will produce the 019 error. It is labeled as a fix for freezing and if used will loop cards and may have similar affects if programmed into the AVR-X card. Emulation testing of this code proves without doubt that the code is designed to loop testing platforms. Penga has recently issued a statement warning people not to attempt to use this code, or you will be sorry. Especially with the AVR-X platform, you are advised to use only code that is issued from the AVR-X code producers or from Mili. Heed this advice and don't use untested code on any platform.

01-16-2006, 06:07 PM

burnt_servo

01-16-2006, 07:08 PM

i've been thinking about getting a avr-x , and i'm curious about the 019 error .

maybe it's a malfunction with the card , card receiver combo , or some sort of ecm with certain recievers . maybe it's a programing glitch . who knows .....

regardless i think if we can keep the ***holes who want to bash the hell out of milli out of the thread dealing with problems with the arv-x , i think some usefull idea's and fixes can come out of a open and frank discussion of what it going on .

tobyguy

01-16-2006, 07:49 PM

If I remember correctly programmed replacement chips were to be available at a nominal charge of one dollar + shipping.

AVR-X platforms are not the primary source of the freezing problem. However, the freezing problem exist on all testing platforms & in subscribed IRD's as well. Once Charlie comes up with a fix for his stream, freezing issues will disappear or be substantially reduced in testing units.

BULLSHIT. I'm getting absolutely no freezing on my FTA (coolsat platinum 5000).

ATMGEA, yes there is freezing.

Freezing on plastic depends... there are known issues and resolutions.

Tobyguy

Bandit5906

01-16-2006, 08:07 PM

BULLSHIT. I'm getting absolutely no freezing on my FTA (coolsat platinum 5000).

ATMGEA, yes there is freezing.

Freezing on plastic depends... there are known issues and resolutions.

Tobyguy

Hell, I've experienced freezing on my cardless Dish 811. I do have 6 AVR-x's running in 301.010, and 301.013 and maybe see a freeze once a day with the tiers I am currently running. Using the AVR-X tiers everything would freeze every 15 seconds.

When there was no software for the 301.010 I never complained. One thing I've learned over the years is patience: that's why it is called testing, IMHO!

tobyguy

01-16-2006, 08:15 PM

Hell, I've experienced freezing on my cardless Dish 811. I do have 6 AVR-x's running in 301.010, and 301.013 and maybe see a freeze once a day with the tiers I am currently running. Using the AVR-X tiers everything would freeze every 15 seconds.

When there was no software for the 301.010 I never complained. One thing I've learned over the years is patience: that's why it is called testing, IMHO!

I'm sure you can find a user or two on every platform to say they experience freezing. However, certain platforms running specific revisions are chronically freezing right now - and they do so regulary. And some are NOT (I noted an example above).

BTW. All kinds of things can lead to freezing - weather, interference, things obscructing the Dish - that's why you'll always get people complaining to some extent - no matter what they are running.

Also, just because some subs are freezing doesn't mean it's the stream. It could easily be the way they are handling the stream. Again, I can tell you that I am getting no freezing whatsoever any more with my Coolsat.

Mind you, I'd gladdly live with the freezing on the AVR-X if it ever supports autoroll for BEV - as my 6000 isn't doing much right now as I can't handle DISH HDTV.

Tobyguy

RS422

01-16-2006, 08:19 PM

What happen to the post by seaboard18 concerning the warning by Penga about bad code causing 019 errors? I was just reading it awhile ago and now it is gone. It was a very interesting post.

What do you think happened to that post ...???

DUH ....!!!!

Twostep

01-16-2006, 08:35 PM

What do you think happened to that post ...???

DUH ....!!!!
I guess that fucking scumbag Mili deleted it, RS422, but while you're just sitting around having some coffee, scroll up to post #13 in this thread. That should work until you find what you're looking for:rolleyes:

The return rate for defective AVRX cards at this point in time, for ALL reasons? A consistent 7 percent. Approximately 150 cards out of 2000 sold through all venues.

The numbers are accurate; take it to the bank.;) Now, no more need for 019 polls that are good for nothing but starting fusses.

MOST (although not all) 019 errors are due to something in the code that is locking the processors, in some cases, permanently. I can guarantee you it's not Mag...oops, Mr. AVRX...putting "poison code" into his programming, ALA the MagicCard fiasco. He has one mission in mind, and that is to make money. No way is he going to abort his own kid, not at this point in time.....as Seaboard18 posted, it's a problem that is NOT peculiar to the AVRX platform. I've seen 019 errors with every form of NagraII testing.

Twostep

01-16-2006, 08:44 PM

I know the feeling, DA.....:D

Zoedog

01-16-2006, 09:42 PM

The warranty period is thirty days, not twenty. And, Mili will accept returns on cards that are permanantly 019 even after that if approached in a respectful manner.

Here's a C & P from the defective product return page:

They will forward it to me in the Bahamas so please declare the value of the contents as "Return of Defective Product, value $5" ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE!!! otherwise Bahamian Customs will levy a BIG duty on it which I will not pay and you will get no replacement. To qualify for replacement, the product must not be tampered with nor any repair attempted without my prior approval in an email and must have been **************delivered in the past 21 days.****************** If you tried fixing it you just voided this warranty

Sure looks like you're wrong about that thirty days warranty. Maybe you should know what you're writing about BEFORE you write, ESPECIALLY in your position.

Bandit5906

01-16-2006, 10:15 PM

Here's a C & P from the defective product return page:

They will forward it to me in the Bahamas so please declare the value of the contents as "Return of Defective Product, value $5" ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE!!! otherwise Bahamian Customs will levy a BIG duty on it which I will not pay and you will get no replacement. To qualify for replacement, the product must not be tampered with nor any repair attempted without my prior approval in an email and must have been **************delivered in the past 21 days.****************** If you tried fixing it you just voided this warranty

Sure looks like you're wrong about that thirty days warranty. Maybe you should know what you're writing about BEFORE you write, ESPECIALLY in your position.

Regardless of what it says, mili is a fair person who will do everything he can for his customers. Even if it is outside the days mentioned he will make the return as long as there is no physical damage to the card. He will not leave you hanging, IMHO!

burnt_servo

01-16-2006, 10:19 PM

Regardless of what it says, mili is a fair person who will do everything he can for his customers. Even if it is outside the days mentioned he will make the return as long as there is no physical damage to the card. He will not leave you hanging, IMHO!

my experience with him has been the same , he's a fair and decent guy just trying to make a living .

couch patato

01-17-2006, 12:33 AM

problem is this lets quit taking a position and fix the problem. my card worked fine until a upgrade. now it's dead,why. did my setup suddenly fail? no. so how about fixing it so we can all work together and fix it.. if you try all the methods listed then somthing else happened,what and why? remember back to the mc's days. even though people thuoght they were buying cards from leget dealers they got burnt with 019! now its back. camon lets get it together.

grandpa

01-17-2006, 01:38 AM

Well, If I can have my 2 cents here. I only have one AVR-X (from the first batch, paid $164) and took me couple of days to get it to work. Freezing and blackout is normal. Fortunately, ROM10 cards (some lying around and some for $30 ea) works great. I still "test"AVR-X, but no more than 10 minutes at a time; it is just not reliable.

So there are probably others like me whose AVR-X is sitting idle in a tiny plastic box.

I think the AVR-X can be fixed to run smoothly if they really wanted to!!!

I'll buy more whenever that day comes, until then plastic all the way.

There is no need for a poll, just look at the complaints every day!!!!

01-17-2006, 05:10 AM

Bandit5906

01-17-2006, 05:24 AM

I wrote Mili explaining my situation with two dead 019 avr-x's and he wrote back to me that the 21 day return policy is solid. I was only about one week out of warranty period. You are wrong or maybe this is just more deceptive practice.

Maybe it is possible you approached mili with your attitude? If that were the case no wonder he clamped down on you. It takes a lot to anger me and you've never seen an angry post from me, but you attitude does annoy me. All of my dealings with mili have been good and he has been more than fair to me.

Maybe it is you? What do you think?

Zoedog

01-17-2006, 05:27 AM

Maybe it's just that there are so many people abusing the system that he's decided to stick to a firm policy when it comes to the AVR-X. I know with other products Mili has been very cooperative when it comes to legitimate returns. If I were him I'd be pretty sick of all the crap folks are slinging now days.

ABUSING THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like trying to return a product that HAS NEVER WORKED AS PROMISED. That kind of abuse?
There's not one single X card that works as promised, no freezing and working autoroll. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE. That kind of abuse?
PLEASE!

Evidently where you posted: "
Originally Posted by JT
The warranty period is thirty days, not twenty. And, Mili will accept returns on cards that are permanantly 019 even after that if approached in a respectful manner."

You were NOT only partly wrong, YOU WERE COMPLETELY WRONG. THAT KIND OF ABUSE?

Bandit5906

01-17-2006, 05:35 AM

ABUSING THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like trying to return a product that HAS NEVER WORKED AS PROMISED. That kind of abuse?
There's not one single X card that works as promised, no freezing and working autoroll. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE. That kind of abuse?
PLEASE!

Evidently where you posted: "
Originally Posted by JT
The warranty period is thirty days, not twenty. And, Mili will accept returns on cards that are permanantly 019 even after that if approached in a respectful manner."

You were NOT only partly wrong, YOU WERE COMPLETELY WRONG. THAT KIND OF ABUSE?

I have six cards that all work fine and have never given me a problem (except when I made a slight error) and they are running in 301.010 and 301.013 single TSOP. There is no freezing that I have ever seen since changing the tiers, but it was impossible to watch TV until I changed them. That is abuse?

About the autoroll things: I don't remember that being offered in the original advertisement. Maybe I am the only customer who is happy with the product. I'll bet you that whatever problem you are having is the result of something you've done on your end, but that is just my opinion.

nofear

01-17-2006, 05:37 AM

Maybe it's just that there are so many people abusing the system that he's decided to stick to a firm policy when it comes to the AVR-X. I know with other products Mili has been very cooperative when it comes to legitimate returns. If I were him I'd be pretty sick of all the crap folks are slinging now days.

JT.... you appear to be awfull protective of milli and the avrx problems. Whats your take? I quess its ok that the product has a flaw and because it doesn't affect you that everyone with a 019 error is a bad guy.

What has people abusing the system got to do with the people who believed they were getting a good product because of millis reputation and now they are stuck with an ice scrapper after 21 days. I guess they are abusing the system if they ask for or want support to get their purchased product up and running.

The biggest problem that I see is that no one is willing step forward and say that this is a problem and that support is trying to resolve the issue. I just don't see that anywhere.

Bandit5906

01-17-2006, 05:47 AM

JT.... you appear to be awfull protective of milli and the avrx problems. Whats your take? I quess its ok that the product has a flaw and because it doesn't affect you that everyone with a 019 error is a bad guy.
What has people abusing the system got to do with the people who believed they were getting a good product because of millis reputation and now they are stuck with an ice scrapper after 21 days. I guess they are abusing the system if they ask for or want support to get their purchased product up and running.
The biggest problem that I see is that no one is willing step forward and say that this is a problem and that support is trying to resolve the issue. I just don't see that anywhere.

The biggest problem is that there are so many ways for the end user to make a mistake and then jump on the bandwagon and bash the card, mili, posters who try to help, etc. No doubt there are a few bad cards, but the vast majority work as advertised. It is easy to make a mistake in programming, installing the hedder, modding the programer,having a good battery, updating the IRD, and people seem unwilling to be responsible for their errors and then they approach mili with an attitude like Veronica has.

And then they wonder why mili will not help them. I wonder how many cards mili has gotten back that were not defective and the percentage of the total?

anotherjohndoe

01-17-2006, 05:52 AM

#40, you are right but for some reason every one desides to cluder the board with the same question, when it has been asked 500 times already. The 019 question is asked every day.

The question is out there every day because it's a problem every day for many folks out there. Sorry you're tired of reading about it. Just consider yourself lucky you're not having the same problem. I bet some of you will be screaming the loudest when your day comes.

01-17-2006, 06:01 AM

ABUSING THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like trying to return a product that HAS NEVER WORKED AS PROMISED. That kind of abuse?
There's not one single X card that works as promised, no freezing and working autoroll. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE. That kind of abuse?
PLEASE!

Evidently where you posted: "
Originally Posted by JT
The warranty period is thirty days, not twenty. And, Mili will accept returns on cards that are permanantly 019 even after that if approached in a respectful manner."

You were NOT only partly wrong, YOU WERE COMPLETELY WRONG. THAT KIND OF ABUSE?

Damn it's a good thing I have you to keep me in line Zoedog.:D I was unaware that Mili had shortened the warranty period for the AVR-X's. My bad. What your doing and how your approaching things around here is completely innappropriate Zoedog. And yes, most people are happy with thier AVR-X cards. I know I'm happy with my small batch of them. I had the sense to return the one bad one I got in a timely fashion so I didn't get stuck with it. I bet if you put as much effort into getting your card working as you do coming here to bitch and try to discredit me you'd have figured out what you are doing wrong and you'd be watching TV with your AVR-X.....but where's the fun in that?

nofear

01-17-2006, 06:02 AM

The biggest problem is that there are so many ways for the end user to make a mistake and then jump on the bandwagon and bash the card, mili, posters who try to help, etc. No doubt there are a few bad cards, but the vast majority work as advertised. It is easy to make a mistake in programming, installing the hedder, modding the programer,having a good battery, updating the IRD, and people seem unwilling to be responsible for their errors and then they approach mili with an attitude like Veronica has.
And then they wonder why mili will not help them. I wonder how many cards mili has gotten back that were not defective and the percentage of the total?

I take it that you also believe that this is not a product or support issue. It is so easy for you to blame the user. What about all the guys who had working units until the software revision changed. That is the real issue, yet you and others can not and will not accept the fact because your product is working.

My card failed one week after the 21 one days and I also emailed milli and my email was not inflamitory and I got the same response. Most of the post I have seen are not bashing the card but are asking for help and support.

I dont believe that you are capable of either. All I see from you is people bashing.

01-17-2006, 06:06 AM

You gripers seem to be forgetting that this is 'testing'. It's illegal. We're lucky we have any options out there. If you guys can't stand the risks involved in this game you should subscribe. Then Charlie can listen to you guys bitch day in and day out.

Bandit5906

01-17-2006, 06:09 AM

The question is out there every day because it's a problem every day for many folks out there. Sorry you're tired of reading about it. Just consider yourself lucky you're not having the same problem. I bet some of you will be screaming the loudest when your day comes.

I doubt it. Those of us who have been doing this for a while are familiar with glitches while testing and will make provisions to continue to watch TV. There are so many solutions to watching TV that is is easy to put aside one testing device and use another and wait until a solution is provided for the original testing device (assuming there will be one). If no solution is provided then it is what it is and go on from there. This is testing and it is this way and always will be.

I've been at this since the battery card days. I've had great equipment, and not so great equipment and you just learn to deal with it. If you cannot do that then it is time to sub and get another hobby. I've got a box full of equipment that did not work correctly: loaders, un-loopers, JTAGs, eproms, 20 or so HU cards, ROM3, ROM101, ROM 102. You name it! I enjoy the hobby for what it is and when I stop then I will find another hobby.

01-17-2006, 06:56 AM

Zoedog

01-17-2006, 07:13 AM

Damn it's a good thing I have you to keep me in line Zoedog.:D I was unaware that Mili had shortened the warranty period for the AVR-X's. My bad. What your doing and how your approaching things around here is completely innappropriate Zoedog. And yes, most people are happy with thier AVR-X cards. I know I'm happy with my small batch of them. I had the sense to return the one bad one I got in a timely fashion so I didn't get stuck with it. I bet if you put as much effort into getting your card working as you do coming here to bitch and try to discredit me you'd have figured out what you are doing wrong and you'd be watching TV with your AVR-X.....but where's the fun in that?

Actually, I had the sense to wait, see how virtually everybody had problems, some absolutely unrecoverable, see how it wasn't even close to what was promised, make sure mine worked, at least for the time it took me to put it in the receiver, get the picture and turn the receiver off, sell off the units and test with more reliable, far less expensive methods. The Rom10xto10, 101 and now 102 solutions. That's the fun part, doing something that works, reliably. I also have fun watching some people defend an indefensible position; that these cards aren't as bad as they seem.
As to my "inappropriate behavior", I've written nothing untrue whereas you have, REPEATEDLY. Which behavior is "inappropriate", the truth, or your, well, not so accurate, statements?

fubr

01-17-2006, 07:34 AM

some people like to buttfuck goats some like chickens.
6 in one hand 1/2 dozen in the other.
you guys are like the tigers that ran around and around the tree till they turned into butter.

Crow 492

01-17-2006, 09:04 AM

I got an idea close this post or let it go on for the baby's?

tile

01-17-2006, 11:48 AM

Just move on to something else if you're not happy. The free tv'ers can enjoy their fta's, the old N1 testers can play w/ atmega/rom10's while they last, and the coders/testers are enjoying real testing on rom101/102. There's also dvb/emulation/syndrome, but those have issues, too.
The product wasn't as advertised, not mili's fault, just got misled by AVR-X and his own lack of knowledge on coding. Surprised it's lasted this long on borrowed rom102 to rom10 emulated code.
No autoroll
No jtag feature
No socket IC for chip replacement
Programmer's made incorrectly, needing a modification
I'm still laughing about the wireless jtagging and 7100/7200 promises
There are people working on schematics and there's a good chance the AVR-X will be open source or cracked. If it becomes open source like atmega128, the quality of the product/software/programming will be much better.
Your absolutely right! and to mr AVRX you won you were the first to capitalize on a niche market good for you job well done! now will you feed your people the ability to update tier dates or will you bleed them untill the last one is standing? because I have a strong suspension it's a power trip with you and if so you are no better than charlie and dave time will tell if they welcome you in hell.

Bandit5906

01-17-2006, 02:43 PM

Actually, I had the sense to wait, see how virtually everybody had problems, some absolutely unrecoverable, see how it wasn't even close to what was promised, make sure mine worked, at least for the time it took me to put it in the receiver, get the picture and turn the receiver off, sell off the units and test with more reliable, far less expensive methods. The Rom10xto10, 101 and now 102 solutions. That's the fun part, doing something that works, reliably. I also have fun watching some people defend an indefensible position; that these cards aren't as bad as they seem.
As to my "inappropriate behavior", I've written nothing untrue whereas you have, REPEATEDLY. Which behavior is "inappropriate", the truth, or your, well, not so accurate, statements?

Where do you come up with the opinion that "virtually everybody" has problems? I have six cards working flawlessly and have never had a problem with any of them other than the one minor user error on my part.

What makes you think that my position is indefensable? 6 out of 6 in 301.010, 301.013 is a pretty good record. I don't believe that your programming of the plastic is any less expensive that the AVR-X although it is more fun.

I think that a lot of customers think that by purchasing an AVR-X that that absolves them of the responsibility to be accurate and careful how they "program" it. Here we see a few (maybe 20-30) who have had problems and I'll bet mili has about 2,000 working units out there.

Concerning your behavior: JT madse an error, but it was not deliberate. You on the other hand are very deliberate with your bashing. Get a life! As far as I can tell you never had a problem with the AVR-X, but bash it like it was the biggest POC out there, IMAO!

anotherjohndoe

01-17-2006, 05:07 PM

If it makes you feel good to be condescending then you have your reward in full.

I'm no genius, but it's not my first time around the block either. Like you, I don't keep all my eggs in one basket. You're assuming that just because you're not having a problem then it doesn't exist. That's pretty annoying too.

I've got three avrx that all worked fine ...for a while. There's lots of ways to test, but I'd like to have a solution for my avrx investment also. I can say for certain that many of the 019 issues are not user related. I know this firsthand.

Why is it that seasoned hacker/tester people like y'all are even wasting your time in such a newbie free tver forum like this anyway? Why would you bore yourself with such an unchallenging simple minded method like avrx? How many avrx cards did you say you had anyway?

Right back at ya by the way, if you spent as much time helping others in need as you do criticizing and calling them stupid, everybody would be up and running I'm sure.

While I don't condone rocking the boat, or trying to catch flies with vinegar - I can't just stand by and not speak up.

These folks are asking for your guidance and assistance and you're telling them their problem doesn't exist, that it's user error. While that may be the case for a certain percentage, there is a real problem.

Come down of your high horses for a while and share with us some of your infinite wisdom. Why are so many of us out of service with 1.05 and later versions? Maybe mili will send you one of the damaged cards and you can show us all how much you know about testing.