FTA test and what DishNet may try to do to take them out

[mili]

Why they don't attack FTA is a mystery. Clearly, they must be under tremendous pressure to kill off these FTA receivers from investors, customers, FCC and DirecTV. Can you imagine how many calls they have probably gotten from loyal customers who pay a monthly subscription and tell them: "What the Fuck? I pay you $100 monthly for a sub but my neighbour gets everything for free with a legitimate FTA receiver". I am sure DTV has also complained to the FCC about them too. I honestly think Dish laid-off signal integrity after the swap out or their engineers are too busy to devise ECMs right now. Eventually, they will have to do something. You have probably noticed that their current key changes are actually "computerized". They happen every 3 weeks on Tuesdays: first a few channels like CNN go blackscreen and then a couple of days later all channels go. It is so predictable that one is pretty sure no human operator is involved.
They can kill off FTAs very easily: Simply speed up the datastream with 768 bit video decryption. 768 bit encryption is currently used on the autoroll packets and it takes FTA receivers 1 to 3 minutes to "grab" the new keys. You can verify this by zeroing out the keys in an FTA receiver and time how long it takes to roll. Try it several times and see what your best time is, it will always be at least a minute before you get video. Try this experiment on several FTA receivers and please post your results. Try the same experiment with AVR-X and you will get much shorter roll times. It takes the AVR-X about 4 seconds to decrypt the autoroll packet. If they use this method for video and allow at least 4 seconds, then we will be okay. Video packets come down every 15 seconds, so 15 seconds will be the absolute maximum time to do 768-bit decryption. Historically, with Nagra 1, when Dish implemented this technique in a so called "CMD02", they allowed a 15 second window. Bev was much more restrictive and only allowed about a 2-3 second window. But remember, that was with 512 bits. With 768 bits, they will have to increase those times a bit so their own cams don't fail! If you recall, that was the reason the original AVR equipped with a 9MHz crystal continued to work camless with Dish but simply couldn't keep up with Bev. So X-15 introduced the Atmega.
So please post in this thread your receivers' model and the time it took it to grab the keys.

mili

[maroz28]

I'm using

Ariza 700- Average 2 min to update keys. Longest wait 8 min
Ariza Xtreme - Average 30 seconds to update keys. Longest wait 2 min
Captive Works- Less than 10 seconds everytime. Longest wait 10 seconds, Shortest wait 3 seconds

[fingo11]

Pansat 3500s - 138bin
tried 3 times
25 sec, 33sec, 35sec

[whitealltrac]

Why post something like this??
Seriously, why tip someone on what they should do or even give them a hint to get to ya??? If they knew this, dont you think they would have done it??? Why report how slow or fast the receiver takes to recover?? Jesus, why dont we give up our SSN# or addresses while at it??

Just my own opinion which I am entiled to express I guess.....

[woods]

because it is good information and believe me ifyou dont think that they already know what and how to take things down then i have a direct tv hack to sell you.

honstly anything we can think of they have already though of.

woods

woods

[mili]

Because if you are about to buy a new FTA receiver might want to know if it will have a chance to survive if shit happens? Also if you think that this is something dishnet does not know you are deluding yourself.

mili

[gun smoke]

Why post something like this??
Seriously, why tip someone on what they should do or even give them a hint to get to ya??? If they knew this, dont you think they would have done it??? Why report how slow or fast the receiver takes to recover?? Jesus, why dont we give up our SSN# or addresses while at it??
Just my own opinion which I am entiled to express I guess.....
http://www.designedtoat.com/clipart6/smoke_03.gifI agree.Why post something like this,even if they do no about it.

[fubr]

Why post something like this??
Seriously, why tip someone on what they should do or even give them a hint to get to ya??? If they knew this, dont you think they would have done it??? Why report how slow or fast the receiver takes to recover?? Jesus, why dont we give up our SSN# or addresses while at it??

Just my own opinion which I am entiled to express I guess.....
Think they know more about this than most of us do.

They own a licesne and the toys needed to decrypt signal cause they own the signal.

"they" are the ones that started ALL this in the begining anyway by throwing somebody a bone for us to chew on then the internet Blew up and here we are.

[gun smoke]

Because if you are about to buy a new FTA receiver might want to know if it will have a chance to survive if shit happens? Also if you think that this is something dishnet does not know you are deluding yourself.
mili
Mili,the same was said about the magic card when I bought one,that those cards weren't going to last,and save your money etc.I got my money's worth.

[rsmed]

I think it is a great post. I think some of us forgot what we are doing here, and that would be TESTING!!!!

And for those of you who want to lie to yourself, think of the bins you are using, I know of six different sites I can download them. How many sites dose Charlie know?

[mikepr]

I love how certain people in here keep saying, dont buy this dont buy that, these ftas wont be able to handle it. I remember before nag2 was cracked some people in here said IF and (and it probably will never be cracked)if there is a crack for N2 theres no way certain receivers will be able to handle it. Pantec 2500 or clones are too outdated etc etc. Well you know what people My cheap clone is working great thank you very much. I saved a tonne of money instead of listening to the big wigs in here on what to buy. You think its a waste of money to pay for the cheap asse ftas now?? Your going to save a measly 100 bucks if it doesnt work down the line. Or buy an expensive one for 300-500 bucks. Well what happens if the cheap ones still works??? Your out alot more money. So people should cool it and not try to persuade people to buy certain ftas until the dust finally clears and we know what will or what wont work. Its not a bad thing to compare receivers. THats great but when one goes out on a limb to say what will or what wont work buy this dont buy that, thats just plain city. NOBODY KNOWS
Just my two cents

[gun smoke]

I think it is a great post. I think some of us forgot what we are doing here, and that would be TESTING!!!!

And for those of you who want to lie to yourself, think of the bins you are using, I know of six different sites I can download them. How many sites dose Charlie know?
I no what I'm doing here,you call it testing I call it stealing.

[whitealltrac]

FTA's proved MANY people wrong! Guess what??? They will prove YOU wrong again if sh!t happens again. I give them receivers a bigger chance! As YOU can see NO ONE kept posting receiver results on this thread so that along tells YOU that they agree with what I say....

Now is not the time to discuss something like this, and if you know something about 768 bit video decryption and data stream speed up, then when the time comes we will all be here to test the same and a post like this will be more than welcome by the true testers.....

Dont feed the little fish because the big one will come!

[giver]

No,the original post is full of inaccuracies.
It is based in "perception" of how things work,not in facts about how it "really" works.

The key change packet ( key 00/01) is present in the stream evry 5 minutes aprox,depend on provider.
If you are lucky enough you turn on your ird 30 seconds before the next key change,you'll see it autorolling in 30 seconds.
But if you turn on the unit 4 minutes before the next key change packet,you'll have to wait 4 minutes.
No way around this,since this is the same as waiting for a train,some people wait 2 minutes in the station,and some others wait 10 for the same train.
The provider set the frecuency of the key packets,to their needs.
You are also confusing the frecuency the key updat pacets are in the stream,with the time i takes a device to decrypt a 768 bits encrypted packet.
Decryption takes a second and less,if the code is good enough.


Now,the video keys are way diferent.
And you are wrong if you think they come every 10 seconds.
The truth is the video key "change" every 10 seconds aprox,but the frecuency of the packets is in the order of 200 per second.
Amazing,ain't? a simple dvb logging of the ecm pid will tell you this.
So,in the period of 10 seconds we have 2000 packets aprox for you to decrypt 512 bits,as of today,in about 50 milisecs.
If you have to decrypt with 768 bits keys,it will still take less than 1 sec.
And you have 2000 chances to grab the same packet and do it on time.

I was asked this questions in other forums,so I decided to come to the source to explain this,so,there are no doubts about facts you can test yourself,with simple tools.
I have no intentions beyond to set the facts straight,with all the due respect to this forum's admins and mods.
Most probably some people would know who I am,but if not,I'm a "matter of fact" guy about DVB and I try for people to educate themselves by reading real information.
All this facts can be explained in depth,if required,but I believe this simple post will do.
thank you.

[calin]

Thanks giver!!! Your answer will keep this theme alive. How do you read the stream???

[giver]

I use the tolls at hand,easiest would be a DVB card.
Very easy to set filters and grab the stream.
Of course,analizing the stream take another set of tools.

[lp333]

No,the original post is full of inaccuracies... It is based in "perception" of how things work, not in facts about how it "really" works...

Giver, thanks for taking the time to come over here and share your valuable insights with others who are eager to learn - much appreciated!

[dishnewbief59E]

im pretty sure that charlie is working on how to kill all the fta out their... thats why u havent seen any kind of ecm attack but i dont worry about it for now we have free tv so enjoy it

[bil]

does any one know about the recent problem. Since yesterday my reciever working exactly as described above. i gives me picture for a minuter then everything is gone. Then i guess it has to roll keys again. it keeps doing that every few minutes.
any suggestions.
thanks

[neolan]

Wich FTA you runing and wich bin ver you are runing?

[calin]

DN where doing something to stop us, I read that they were changing keys in a fast secuence. Today (saturday) they change them. If you have Autoroll and with that if you have the option of turning it off, do it and manually enter the active keys!!!

[rentedog]

Dear Milli
Dish did exactly what you said they should do in order to kill the FTA.
I was wondering if they would done it if you didn't mention it?

[BirdieMod]

Pansat 2700a, 37 seconds for keys however sometimes grabs fake keys today. bin 1.40. Set keys manually and all fine.

We saw the test of these fake keys a few weeks ago sunday pm for a few hours, Then stream went back to normal.

[sam04]

How can you say they are changing key so fast . If they were changing key then manuel key would not work for long time. I thik they were testing auto roll for FTA sending fake key and fta grabing them.

[jerseyjoe6969]

http://www.designedtoat.com/clipart6/smoke_03.gifI agree.Why post something like this,even if they do no about it. so everyone buys a avr-x aka magic card. figure it out. sales pitch

[mili]

Fuck you jerseyjoe. Guess what. DishNet will also start rolling real keys like madman. WOO HOOO I told them another fucking secret. Now that FTA people had to disable autoroll they can be inconvenienced by rolling keys for good. If you think DishNet needs my fucking advice how to run ECMs you are an idiot. As to the sales pitch AVR-X cards do work and still roll so I guess bashing AVR-X is OK when it has problems but promoting it if it does not have a problem is a blatant sales pitch eh?
So I should just host this forum for your stupid ass to make dumbass comments out of my pocket and not sell a thing to pay for my expenses eh?
Go and fuck yourself idiot.

mili

[tyfon]

WOW...

Why argue about something that we can't control...
With DISH & DTV we are at their mercy...
I'm sure both signals provider have lots of MULA to spend
on Engineers that can develop new ways to
stop our viewing signal...

Thanks to locals and enthusiast like my self and others
not to mention. The people that spend time DAY by DAY
creating ways to get around the protected signal
First was NAG 1 and now NAg 2 and we keep pumping
ways to create ways around it.....

I remember those days when we had the blue cards
I bought a very expensive box to pop the rom3 at that time.
I was able to program them and lock the card (closed)
and my IRD never got hit, my cards never expire, did not use
dish locks, and no blocker.... after a while auto roll
was created and it work fine .for a full year.

But those days are over. We worked so hard to
get it at that stage...

So. Lets get together lets share our knowledge
this is why we are here with DSSFTP... because
he has something that we need and to
mention the support...

I belong to several forums... and there support
needs alot of guys that to plays with DISH...
NO doubt Dish is the better provider in multi languages
channels. This is why I'm here.
We really do need any NEGATIVE responses
this not going to get us anywhere...

IF the member (jerseyjoe6969) does like what we do here...
then he must find his oun source
at the end he will find out where is the best support

If Mili is making lots money then more power to you...
I wish I can do it to... but my knowledge does not go that far
but I will get there... DISH is not going anywhere...

Sorry If I offended anyone but wrote what I felt
what need to be said.

tyfon

[Crow 492]

Fuck you jerseyjoe. Guess what. DishNet will also start rolling real keys like madman. WOO HOOO I told them another fucking secret. Now that FTA people had to disable autoroll they can be inconvenienced by rolling keys for good. If you think DishNet needs my fucking advice how to run ECMs you are an idiot. As to the sales pitch AVR-X cards do work and still roll so I guess bashing AVR-X is OK when it has problems but promoting it if it does not have a problem is a blatant sales pitch eh?
So I should just host this forum for your stupid ass to make dumbass comments out of my pocket and not sell a thing to pay for my expenses eh?
Go and fuck yourself idiot.
mili
__________________
What the hell is this post even up this is retarded. FTA was the first to have N2 and will be the last. To say FTA wonce againg is junk is boll shit.
Its funny how a problem with FTA this weekend started shit like this.
This is a shame on you and you sell them now its not making sence.

This post is a attack on FTA NEWBIES HERE

Just to let every one know all new bins are out with autoroll and working good.

[JT]

It's been obvious since your very first post that your a vendor of FTA's Crow, I'm just wondering which one you are. Why don't you just tell us.

[Darkbob]

that was the reason the original AVR equipped with a 9MHz crystal continued to work camless with Dish

Original AVR??? Are we talking about the Magic Card or a type of Atmega that I don't know about?

--DB

[DB]

It's been obvious since your very first post that your a vendor of FTA's Crow, I'm just wondering which one you are. Why don't you just tell us.What is this suppost to mean. I have never seen Crow try to sell anything here or at any site.

[Cimba]

This has degraded into another cowpie slinger and is serving no good purpose therefore I'm closing it. No bans, no slams, no pointing of fingers, etc. So don't take it personal anyone, just trying to keep it clean and civil.

[JT]

Original AVR??? Are we talking about the Magic Card or a type of Atmega that I don't know about?

--DB

The original AVR's had a 9Mhz crystal on them. Were talking about those big wafer boards of days gone by like the AVR3, AVR6 and AVR9. These things were long enough that they stuck out of the card slot and you could then insert your rom card sideways into the on board card slot of the AVR. (these are old technology, so don't be embarrased if you've never seen one:) )

[JT]

What is this suppost to mean. I have never seen Crow try to sell anything here or at any site.

You mean it's not obvious? It means I want to know which vendor Crow492 represents. That's all. I've been wondering this for a long time now and finally asked.