Judge blocks order to shut down 4 million Ech@star DVRs

[moneyfarmer0]

Here is the site address for the news article. I have a 501, so this definitly caught my interest. It looks like we, and D*sh got lucky. Im glad b/c I love my dvr features. Peace:cool:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/18/tivo_echostar_suit/ (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/18/tivo_echostar_suite/)

[Top10]

link's dead?

[moneyfarmer0]

go to google news. thats where i found it.
peace
mf

[hotrod]

here is the correct address

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/18/tivo_echostar_suit/

[dellsam34]

But this unfair, I want to record HDTV or SDTV which tivo can't offer, it just records from RCA like my grand ma VHS recorder and store the crappy video into a hard drive, where is the consumer rights here??

[mrduffin]

TIVO sucks really......the picture is terrible for what it cost. The pic on the DN DVR is just like the original. I guess the jury were blind!

[txrider]

DALLAS - E*hoStar Communications Corp. rushed to a federal appeals court Friday in a successful bid to avoid shutting down more than 3 million digital video recorders used by customers of its D*sh satellite-TV service.

But the victory could be only temporary. E*hoStar is fighting an uphill battle against TiVo Inc., which convinced a jury in April that E*hoStar infringed on its patented TV-viewing technology in making set-top boxes for D*sh customers.

Late Thursday, the federal district court judge who presided over the trial also sided with TiVo. He issued an injunction ordering E*hoStar to stop selling the recorders and to turn off machines already in customers' homes within 30 days.

Judge David Folsom also ordered E*hoStar to pay TiVo $89.6 million in damages - more than the $74 million the jury awarded.

The ruling helped push TiVo shares up more than 8 percent Friday. Investors kept bidding the shares higher even after a federal appeals court in Washington temporarily blocked the order to disable E*hoStar's video recorders.

The appeals court said that it wasn't ruling on the merits of the case, only that it wanted more time to study whether the injunction should be delayed until appeals can be heard.

Meanwhile, E*hoStar finds itself under attack in a Florida court on a separate issue that could also force it to curtail services to D*sh customers.

E*hoStar asked the Florida judge to delay until Sept. 11 an order that D*sh stop selling signals of distant network stations - for example, a customer in Dallas who wants to receive broadcasts from ABC, CBS, NBC or Fox affiliates in New York or Los Angeles. The judge denied the request.

A E*hoStar spokeswoman, Kathie Gonzalez, said the company had appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court and was negotiating with broadcasters who had sued E*hoStar to prevent customers from losing their distant programming.

Both cases hold the potential to cost D*sh customers, but the TiVo affair is easily the more serious, said analyst Matthew Harrigan of Janco Partners Inc.

"There is absolutely no way they can turn off those (recording) boxes without getting blind-sided. They would lose a lot of customers," Harrigan said. "People who use those boxes really like them. They would be furious."

That was the argument E*hoStar lawyers made in asking the appeals court in Washington to block Judge Folsom's injunction. Forcing D*sh to disable those boxes would force customers to give up a treasured service or find new video-recording service from another provider, the lawyers said.

E*hoStar said it continued to believe it didn't infringe TiVo's patent for "time-warp" technology - the ability to record a live television program while playing another. But E*hoStar also said it was working on modifications to its recorders to avoid future claims of patent infringement.

Gonzalez, the spokeswoman for Englewood, Colo.-based E*hoStar, said more than 3 million of D*sh's 12.5 million subscribers use an E*hoStar recorder that would have been affected by Folsom's ruling. D*sh is the nation's second-largest satellite-TV provider, behind D*recTV.

If the Texas judge's $89.6 million award stands up on appeal, it would represent about half a year's revenue for TiVo, which hasn't earned a profit since its founding in 1997. The potential boon could be seen Friday in Alviso, Calif., company's stock price.

TiVo shares rose 53 cents, or 8.2 percent, to close the day at $7.02 on the Nasdaq Stock Market. E*hoStar shares dropped 30 cents, or just under 1 percent, to $32.45.

TiVo hopes that a victory against E*hoStar will convince other cable and satellite-TV providers that sell digital video recorders, or DVRs, other than TiVo's to agree to pay royalties and licensing fees to the company whose name is synonymous with recording TV on a hard drive.

TiVo has a licensing agreement with the nation's largest satellite-TV provider, D*recTV, which has 3 million TiVo users. A deal with Comcast Corp., which has more than 23 million cable-TV subscribers, is set to begin in the fourth quarter. TiVo is still chasing deals with the other leading cable providers.

"The company on its own is running OK," said Daniel Ernst, an analyst for Soleil Securities. "Prevailing against E*hoStar isn't necessary for their success and growth, but certainly it would be a nice catalyst."

The appeals court gave TiVo until next Wednesday to respond to Friday's move blocking the injunction against E*hoStar.

The case is far from over. Even TiVo could appeal.

The Texas judge could have tripled the jury's $74 million award because jurors found that E*hoStar willfully infringed TiVo's patent. TiVo is considering seeking a larger award on appeal, said spokesman Elliot Sloane.

[JT]

I don't understand the jist of TiVo's argument at all. Are they gonna sue the makers of computer PVR/DVR's next? You can do all the same shit with those too, plus your hard drive is however big you want to make it. Than you can burn it to DVD with the click of a button and then what? Time for the movie industry to sue you for doing it?......

[kable2]

isnt tivo just an updated vcr?

I think the usa has a crazy pattent system anyway, anyone remember IBM's pattent on a line up to use the toilet on a plane? want to piss, pay IBM haha

How about dvd recorders, I can record one channel and watch another.

hell you could record one show on a vcr and press the tv/vid button and watch a different one on the tv.

does anyone have a pattent on a pvr using flash memory yet?

[t160hq]

I don't understand the jist of TiVo's argument at all. Are they gonna sue the makers of computer PVR/DVR's next? You can do all the same shit with those too, plus your hard drive is however big you want to make it. Than you can burn it to DVD with the click of a button and then what? Time for the movie industry to sue you for doing it?......

The suit against Di$h was just to establish tivo's control over
DVR's. Once won they will be able to extort a fee from all that
use any form of recording onto HD's. Di$h was just the
easiest target. You notice they left out the 7XXX units out
of the lawsuit. There was a tactical reason for that. Bringing
microshaft in on this mess would have ment a sure loss.
They never would have won against those deep pockets.

Personally I'm buying stock in tivo. It's going to be the next
microshaft.

If the decision is held up on appeal all the others that use
some form of recording video to a HD will just pay the fee
and continue on from there.


t160hq

[JT]

The suit against Di$h was just to establish tivo's control over
DVR's. Once won they will be able to extort a fee from all that
use any form of recording onto HD's. Di$h was just the
easiest target. You notice they left out the 7XXX units out
of the lawsuit. There was a tactical reason for that. Bringing
microshaft in on this mess would have ment a sure loss.
They never would have won against those deep pockets.
Personally I'm buying stock in tivo. It's going to be the next
microshaft.
If the decision is held up on appeal all the others that use
some form of recording video to a HD will just pay the fee
and continue on from there.
t160hq

The 7200's aren't mentioned in the lawsuit eh? Didn't know that. Defineately food for thought, and your almost certainly correct. I guess testers will be the only ones not paying the extortion fee. :D What do you think will happen to folks with PVR's in their computers like my Hauppauge WinTV PVR350? It burns what ever right to my hard drive in Mpeg, VCD or what ever format. Then I put it on DVD. So I guess I'm doubling or even tripling up on my piracy. Pirating the signal, pirating the recording, and pirating when I burn it.:eek: I'm in trouble now for sure.:rolleyes:

[lefty]

If the decision is held up on appeal all the others that use
some form of recording video to a HD will just pay the fee
and continue on from there.

ReplayTV's aren't made anymore. I hope they don't try to include the current operating models in any way. If they do, a hack that allows them to operate better be somewhere down the pike.

ReplayTV is now working on a software only version that operates on a media PC.

I couldn't justify testing without a way of timeshifting. I rarely watch live TV, excepting news and weather.

Anyone notice all those Free Channels with the Dish Pirate offer are gone? Haven't seen one in a week.

[rg6a]

The suit against Di$h was just to establish tivo's control over
DVR's. Once won they will be able to extort a fee from all that
use any form of recording onto HD's. Di$h was just the
easiest target. You notice they left out the 7XXX units out
of the lawsuit. There was a tactical reason for that. Bringing
microshaft in on this mess would have ment a sure loss.
They never would have won against those deep pockets.

Personally I'm buying stock in tivo. It's going to be the next
microshaft.

If the decision is held up on appeal all the others that use
some form of recording video to a HD will just pay the fee
and continue on from there.


t160hq


Why do you think that RIM settled with a weak patent squatter after a three year battle? Lousy advice from their legal team, should of fought it and would of WON, but what's $650M when there are Billions more to make?

I got involved in the very, very late eighties when IBM attempted the same thing. This involved the 8042 and if you don't know what it is, doesn't matter. Everyone stood their ground and threatened to severely DUMP product and CRASH their Stock.....and big blue's threat disappeared.

Why would either charlie or dave attempt to reverse engineer when a great deal could be done with TiVo?

Answer is GREED! Patents have to be vigorously defended, if not the Court will take it as it's not an infringement. Protecting against these Megoliths can bankrupt a Company and attempting to do some sort of a deal.....well they know they have you and it's going to be a penny on a dollar asked or We'll see you in Court.

[t160hq]

But this unfair, I want to record HDTV or SDTV which tivo can't offer, it just records from RCA like my grand ma VHS recorder and store the crappy video into a hard drive, where is the consumer rights here??

America is a corporate run country. You'll have to move to someplace
like Canada or the EU for consumer rights.

With companies like ford and firestone who know thay have
a problem with a SUV and tire combo. But, continue to kill off
customers with abandon. Instead of recognizing the issue and
doing everything to sort out the problem and prevent deaths.
They spend all their time finding ways to blame the other company
for the problem. While allowing the death toll to continue.

Enron creates a artificial energy shortage in calif. Hundreds
die from heatwave. Not because calif. did not produce enough
electricty to prevent those deaths. But, because Enron
wanted to make a larger profit.

Consumer rights no longer exist. You either do without or buy
the product offered. No matter how badly made or dangerous
that product is.

You had better start watching your back as well. These companies
will kill you off without a second thought. Because they can.
The only time these corporations will worry about killing the
customers is when the numbers start hitting thousands. And
the deaths are short term vs long term. Since that would
affect profits.

t160hq

[kable2]

ahhh yes I remember reading about a formula that the companies use to determine if a recall will be done. Its a math formula that weighs the lawsuit payouts vs the cost of the recall.

In effect if the number of deaths dont cost too much in lawsuits then they dont give a shit, if the lawsuits will cost too much then they care about their customers.

Also I hope this doesnt affect us up here in canada, I dont think our patent office is as screwed up as much as the states.

Its a crazy patent anyway, how the fark can you pattent a digital vcr anyway.

[t160hq]

What do you think will happen to folks with PVR's in their computers like my Hauppauge WinTV PVR350? It burns what ever right to my hard drive in Mpeg, VCD or what ever format. Then I put it on DVD. So I guess I'm doubling or even tripling up on my piracy. Pirating the signal, pirating the recording, and pirating when I burn it.:eek: I'm in trouble now for sure.:rolleyes:

No worries. Only new equipment will be affected. Or software upgrades.

It will come in the form of a higher price for the product.

Likely will go unnoticed by most consumers. Most will just think
the cost of producing the units has gone up. And will never
know 5 to 10 dollars of the cost goes directly to tivo. For
doing less then nothing. Other than winning a lawsuit. :-)

Software is very easy to reconfigure. Once the ground rules
are established from this case they may just rewrite it all
to avoid the whole issue. Depends on which route is cheaper.

It may cost more to rewrite, because of compatability issues on
existing product in the market already. More likely the case since
tivo waited until everyone jumped on the bandwangon and
established the product before making a issue of it with a
lawsuit.

Falls under the catagory of screwing millions of customers
killing profits. vs paying tivo a couple bucks.

t160hq

[t160hq]

Also I hope this doesnt affect us up here in canada, I dont think our patent office is as screwed up as much as the states.

Its a crazy patent anyway, how the fark can you pattent a digital vcr anyway.

This would never work in Canada. American companies can't afford
to piss you guys off. You got all the oil. :-)

Latest estimites predict Canada will be producing as much oil as two Kuwiat's in the next
10 years. Or was it Saudi Arabia's don't remember for sure. Whatever it was Canada
has the second largest reserve in the world. How's it feel to be a economic superpower.

*grin*

t160hq