9/11 was an inside job

[btester1]

You are just a complete idiot and let me guess kennedy was shot from the grassy nole and no man has ever been on the moon either.

and william wallace's fight was for a much different reason then what you are speaking of.

but the nice thing is we have the freedom of speach so people with warped minds like yourself can speak and not be thrown in jail as in some countries..

enjoy your delusions!!! smoke some more or eat some more acid because you are tripping dude!!

William Wallace fought for liberty and freedom against the English occupation.
I haven't related anything he did to anything to what I'm saying.

Lou Dobbs on CNN talked about the North American Union.
That's fact, not a dillusion buddy.
Go check out the facts before you post back.
You will be suprised.

[moneyfarmer0]

btester,
your not going to convince these folks of anything. they do not want to see any truths. you know most people would rather sit in their air-conditioned homes and work in their cubbys, and go to the gulf in the summer and believe that all is well and that everything they read and hear is truth. they feel safe...and thats whats important. hell, alot of the stuff I read blows me away, and I myself dont want to beleive. Besides what can we do about it. Bottom line is " never explain shit,... your friends dont need ya to, and your enemies wont beleive you anyway". Unless you're just one of those who just like to argue. I am not.
peace,
mf

[BigSwifty]

How Gay!

[moneyfarmer0]

"Bigswifty" I find your comeback in reference to being gay quite humerous, considering the main theme in every one of your posts focuses on being on your knees and bending over...lol...so tell me friend, since you seem to be an expert...what do you prefer, kneeling or bending over?...lol....got issues buddy? you may want to address your own back yard b4 poking at others...pun intended...lol
peace

[BigSwifty]

First off, friend and buddy is two words you don't have the luxury of referring to me as!

Next off, when the term peace was popular, you'd be lucky if you were a shit stain on a matress...not that you have evolved much further.

So take your left wing bullshit and cram it!

[btester1]

A real patriot would get mad in here about 9/11
and the north American Union.
I mean we are all going to lose our countries.
Just like the European Union.
These terrorism legislations are an excuse to take our freedoms.
After 9/11 they signed all these agreements on security to eventually create a north American community.
I just saw:
Venezuelan president calls Bush 'the devil'
I guess he's mad about the CIA trying to overthrow him.
People should see that video about the 2002 Venezuela coup on google.
Chavez is lucky to be alive. That's why he's so mad.
He even said it's possible 9/11 was an inside job.
I don't hear of any riots in the streets against Hugo Chavez.

[BigSwifty]

Even if you did, you have your head so far up your ass you would never see it!

[btester1]

Swifty, why didn't your real mother want you.
Now I understand.

[BigSwifty]

Polesmoke is that the best you got ?

[Twostep]

Yes America and Nazi Germany have some similarities. I have a love for the truth, and my country with its freedom to rise up in opposition to our sitting president or any government leader. What the hell is so wrong with that! This is America and if you want me to quiet myself YOU go live in cuba where they don't mind shutting up citizens. "I'll help ya...." <----- Is this a threat?

My, my - we're a touchy bunch, aren't we??:confused:

Another case of someone taking words out of context. A common malady afflicting the far left:( Wasup, where did I ever say - anywhere in this thread - that people shouldn't have the freedom to speak out against a sitting president or any other governmental leader? Maybe you and your bleeding heart pals should be reminded of this - leaders willing to fight, to put brave men and women in harm's way - are the reason you have the freedom today to run around expressing your disgust for the government and the people who lead it.

You're a Blame America First Club card carrier, and your comparison to Nazi Germany pissed me off. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment that I'd help pay for a one-way ticket to ship your ass outta here...which was my way of saying if you hate what America has become (your appraisal of it), then take off. If you think it's that damn bad, go somewhere where it's REALLY bad, like, uh, Cuba.....then you might appreciate what you have here, instead of accusing the entire structure of this country as being one giant conspiracy.

OF COURSE it's not a threat - damn, bro, what do you think I could do, anyway? Type you to death??? It's a POINT, designed to make you think a little.

You doomsdayers are so sad you'd bring tears to a glass eye...:rolleyes:

[fubr]

OF COURSE it's not a threat - damn, bro, what do you think I could do, anyway? Type you to death??? It's a POINT, designed to make you think a little. lol

[Budreaux]

OK, I'm gonna, inspite of my better judgement, jump back in here for a few.

The thee that has been evolving in this thread isn;t oe of facts.

It isn;t one of concern either.

It is merely a few folks prodding for what they are getting from a few of you, Irritation.

They sit here and talk about our loyalties and question our patriotism.

How can you question ones patriotism if you aren't even a member or know what it's about.

You read and watch videos.. this somehow makes you an expert on all topics you viewed.

Several posts back, someone brought out all the "experts" we have here and how noone here is really an expert in these maters.

I couldn;t agree more.

The point is to try and civilly discuss individual points of view and not force either on anyone.

However, that isn't happening, because btester didn;t post for that reason.

btester posted, simply to create the malcontent we are viewing in the later portion of this thread.

My point here is... drop it... no amount of logical thinking, for or against, will sway the thinking process here.

When you post to create malcontent, then you aren;t looking for reason, you are looking for drama.

Take the drama away and they lose interest and leave.

Just click on the "Political Discussion" section and see that the first 2 threads ever started were started by btester.

I find it odd that the Canadian seems to have so many views about American policy, yet isn't american.

He's here simply to insight drama and irritate as many as he can.

Think about that before you even consider posting in this thread, or any more of btesters threads for that manter.

Budreaux

[BigSwifty]

Ya Budreaux ...

Figures, all this opinion and isn't from here!

...that was post #20

Edit: His ass needs tossed in the middle of NYC to cry his views!

[Budreaux]

Swifty,

I was actually referring to post #204, see below:

Hello,
The thing here is that everyone somehow is an expert on the topic because they know some high school level physics or have a rudamentary understanding of aerodynamics or structural engineering. What those people fail to realize is that they do not have access to data and evidence to scrutinize the events of 911 nor the intellectual capabilities that actual "experts" with legitimate degrees and specialized equipment have at their disposition. We have "experts" on both sides who find themselves in contradiction of each other over this topic so I dont think anyone here can contend they have "analyzed" the data and hence are in the position to formulate theories. We all are to a large degree "parrots" but who the hell is'nt, both sides are quoting people who are recognized in their specialized fields and have the intelligence to make qualified suppositions. I guess the answer is not in convincing others of our beliefs, its wether we are content knowing what we know.

Now Swifty, without an arguement insueing between you and I, I honestly feel you shoud refrain from posting any further in this thread. Your responses are exactly what they are looking for. I understand your stance and the reason why you are offended with their comments, but please and try and understand what i am saying. Your anger is what feeds them. Starve them by not feeding them and this thread wilts away.

Budreaux

[BigSwifty]

But it's so much fun to pick on the weak minded!

And w/o arguement, it appears they get more mileage from trying to convert them then just calling them the nasty lil bastards they are.

[btester1]

Polesmoke is that the best you got ?
No Swifty, I got more. You keep the comments coming. It keeps this thread going well. The more people I get my message out to.

[Budreaux]

No Swifty, I got more. You keep the comments coming. It keeps this thread going well. The more people I get my message out to.
What exactly is your message that you are trying to get out?

And once we determine that, what is it that drives you to get this message out?

Budreaux

[BigSwifty]

You don't have shit ! Never have... never will! And the last thing you will ever have unless this thread is closed or I am banned is the last word.

[BigSwifty]

And that goes for any of your Kool-Aid pals!

[gitmocap]

Are they planning to do the same seem to the UN? Chavez says he can smell the sulphur : ) [thermite etc.]

[btester1]

Are they planning to do the same seem to the UN? Chavez says he can smell the sulphur : ) [thermite etc.]
Chavez like a good boy, goes and checks the facts of the 9/11 inside job.
He's the only one that protests the Lebanon horror of Qana too.
Kicks out the Israeli Ambassador.
It's not about left or right, it's right and wrong.

[Budreaux]

Still no reply?

Why is it you steer away from questions that request a direct answer from you?

Budreaux

[btester1]

Still no reply?
Why is it you steer away from questions that request a direct answer from you?
Budreaux
You lost me at Spontaneous Human Combustion.
I'm sure there are people qualified to handle these kind of questions.

[Budreaux]

What exactly is your message that you are trying to get out?
And once we determine that, what is it that drives you to get this message out?
Budreaux
Then try this one.

Much simplier question.

Little more direct though.

Budreaux

[BigSwifty]

Chavez like a good boy, goes and checks the facts of the 9/11 inside job.
He's the only one that protests the Lebanon horror of Qana too.
Kicks out the Israeli Ambassador.
It's not about left or right, it's right and wrong.
Another hidden agenda of you I see!

[Twostep]

Are they planning to do the same seem to the UN? Chavez says he can smell the sulphur : ) [thermite etc.]
If they'll promise to waste the UN building, I'll supply the Thermite to pull it off...just make sure that fucking Chavez is in there making a speech when the fuse is lit:mad:

BTester, I'll be honest with you. I wouldn't have said a word about this until now, but your support of Hugo Chavez leaves me no choice.

I firmly believe you are a full-fledged member of the Communist party. I'm not the only one here that's thinking the same thing. As such, all your yapping makes sense, looking at it through Red glasses....

You might as well talk about it; your controversial nature has already been firmly established....

[BigSwifty]

And an anti-semite to boot!

[BigSwifty]

And another turd flops in btestes punch bowl!

CHA CHING !

[Budreaux]

Like I said.... way back in the thread..... He's a Parrot.

No original thinking or ideals.

He's posting what he's been taught to believe.

You can;t really fault him for anything other than having a weak mind.

To be so easily brainwashed would require that.

Budreaux

[BigSwifty]

True Dat !

No arguement here!

And if we do... We need $$$$

Alfred E vs F.Z.


Best Wishes!!

[spanga]

well i'm back home and have access to high speed again so i watched loose change....interesting......then i read the popular mechanics article....satisfied that the inside job myth is busted....was however very intrigued by the supposed highjackers that are still alive, bin laden in an american hospital, the alleged fabrication of bin laden confession and a few other issues.....stuff like the insurance policy collection, the short selling of boeing shares, crooked stock trading all fall under the category of circumstantial without hard evidence.....the stuff i mentioned before is simply the government playing the same old games it always has to pursue an agenda....unfortunately this time the agenda is war to get a firm military presence in the middle east to stabalize oil flow, and oh ya...get those taliban, al qaeda bastards who are pissed at the US for jerking them around in the first place.....not that's there's anything wrong with that....sheesh, it just keeps going in circles and likely will for the rest of our lifetimes

[harrybuckman]

Canada can keep you in jail. Just read in the newspaper today by a lawyer who represents some of the so called terrorists.


Yes they can keep you in jail forever for no reason, but............... only if you are an Arab.

Who cares??? lol

[btester1]

If they'll promise to waste the UN building, I'll supply the Thermite to pull it off...just make sure that fucking Chavez is in there making a speech when the fuse is lit:mad:

BTester, I'll be honest with you. I wouldn't have said a word about this until now, but your support of Hugo Chavez leaves me no choice.

I firmly believe you are a full-fledged member of the Communist party. I'm not the only one here that's thinking the same thing. As such, all your yapping makes sense, looking at it through Red glasses....

You might as well talk about it; your controversial nature has already been firmly established....

You like George Bush TwoStep?

[Bandit5906]

A real patriot would get mad in here about 9/11
and the north American Union.
I mean we are all going to lose our countries.
Just like the European Union.
These terrorism legislations are an excuse to take our freedoms.
After 9/11 they signed all these agreements on security to eventually create a north American community.
I just saw:
Venezuelan president calls Bush 'the devil'
I guess he's mad about the CIA trying to overthrow him.
People should see that video about the 2002 Venezuela coup on google.
Chavez is lucky to be alive. That's why he's so mad.
He even said it's possible 9/11 was an inside job.
I don't hear of any riots in the streets against Hugo Chavez.

Do you have any knowledge of history? Do you know any of the restrictions placed on Americans during WW II?

I do not understand your love for Chavez: maybe you should go there and riot in the streets?

BTW: I am a real patriot and I live in the greatest country on God's green earth: The United States of America!

[tkdusa]

William Wallace fought for liberty and freedom against the English occupation.
I haven't related anything he did to anything to what I'm saying.

Lou Dobbs on CNN talked about the North American Union.
That's fact, not a dillusion buddy.
Go check out the facts before you post back.
You will be suprised.

you get your information from the Communist News Network? You agree with hugo chavez? nothing more needs to be said

YOU ARE INDEED THE BIGGEST FUCKUP ON THE PLANET!!!

[btester1]

you get your information from the Communist News Network? You agree with hugo chavez? nothing more needs to be said

YOU ARE INDEED THE BIGGEST FUCKUP ON THE PLANET!!!

I never said I agree with Hugo Chavez. I said that he's coming out on
9/11 and calling Bush the devil.

I"m sure he has a lot of support for saying that. He got a big applause
at the United Nations.

CIA tried to overthrow him and he was pretty mad about it.
You would be too, if someone took you away and almost killed you.

[btester1]

No live links.com

Public in the dark about North American Union integration.

[BenDover]

Like I said in another post, if you dont think the goverment would do that to u, take a look at the northwoods document, thats proof. Now there was a post in this thread about pearl harbor being a conspiracy, well it was. They new about the attack in advance and let it happen for a pre text to get into the war, this is also a fact. I will not post a book on the facts since this is all public information, do a little research yourself, and form your own opinion....

[btester1]

I have two jobs. I simply can't do it all.
Other people should help out.
Some of these guys are just blind patriots.
They are well meaning people, just they don't know what is going on.

[BenDover]

Tester I think your doing a great job on this thread, You get alot of members bashing you and you always reply with grace and facts, dont let the few members get to you. :)

[BenDover]

Tester I have a few friends that attended the Bilderberg summit in Ottawa, They were arrested and taken to a secret location and interagated for hours. They have started there own web site on the Canadian issues its
xxx.truthmovement.ca It looks like the web site is still under construction but you can have a look at what happend here xxx.infowars.com/articles/nmo/terror canadian style.htm

[Twostep]

You like George Bush TwoStep?
I'll answer that question directly, with no spin. How's that?

1) I do NOT believe he's involved in a conspiracy of any kind.
2) I feel safer, knowing his tough stance on terror.
3) I respect and appreciate his religious beliefs and his willingness to publically proclaim them.
4) I respect his ability and willingness to forge ahead on what he believes, in the face of poor ratings and nonstop assaults from opposition parties.

I could elaborate on those points, but no need , you get the idea...now, for the downside:

1) The Bush administration and the Republican party as a whole have, in the last 6 years or so, spent money as if there's no end to it - and run the National Debt through the roof.
2) Has been pitifully weak on immigration issues. Lots of politics here, and those politics are really hurting America.
3) The war in Iraq. I'm talking about how the war has been waged, not the reasons for or against it. My grandkids could have done a better job. Time to get the job done, and get the hell out.
4) Bush needs to take some public speaking lessons. Seriously. It's hard to know how a person really feels, what their ideas really are - when that person has no ability to convey them. And he can't speak his way out of a paper sack. As a result, he and his administration come across as secretive, as if they have something to hide.

Do I like him? Sure. Would I vote for him again? No.

[dw7]

I'll answer that question directly, with no spin. How's that?

1) I do NOT believe he's involved in a conspiracy of any kind.
2) I feel safer, knowing his tough stance on terror.
3) I respect and appreciate his religious beliefs and his willingness to publically proclaim them.
4) I respect his ability and willingness to forge ahead on what he believes, in the face of poor ratings and nonstop assaults from opposition parties.

I could elaborate on those points, but no need , you get the idea...now, for the downside:

1) The Bush administration and the Republican party as a whole have, in the last 6 years or so, spent money as if there's no end to it - and run the National Debt through the roof.
2) Has been pitifully weak on immigration issues. Lots of politics here, and those politics are really hurting America.
3) The war in Iraq. I'm talking about how the war has been waged, not the reasons for or against it. My grandkids could have done a better job. Time to get the job done, and get the hell out.
4) Bush needs to take some public speaking lessons. Seriously. It's hard to know how a person really feels, what their ideas really are - when that person has no ability to convey them. And he can't speak his way out of a paper sack. As a result, he and his administration come across as secretive, as if they have something to hide.

Do I like him? Sure. Would I vote for him again? No.

You pretty well nailed it - The only thing i would change is "would i vote for him again ?" If he was running against Al Gore or John Kerry again - Hell Yes !

The sad fact is that only people who are willing to do the hard work to accomplish what they know is right expose themselves to criticism - Doing and standing for nothing is easy and you can't be criticized in the end as long as you keep saying what you think everyone wants you to say - I personally had enough of that president

[Bandit5906]

You pretty well nailed it - The only thing i would change is "would i vote for him again ?" If he was running against Al Gore or John Kerry again - Hell Yes !
The sad fact is that only people who are willing to do the hard work to accomplish what they know is right expose themselves to criticism - Doing and standing for nothing is easy and you can't be criticized in the end as long as you keep saying what you think everyone wants you to say - I personally had enough of that president


Second that, but I would vote for him no matter who the Libs put up at this point. Completely interested in re-gaining power and not what is good for the country! No political initiatives! No adgenda other than they hate Bush! They don't give a whit about my country: only themselves!

[Bandit5906]

Those of you with recourses to download movies i suggest you grab yourself the Documentary "911 in Plane site" (not plain sight) then try n say it isnt a conspiracy. i said ---------> .

:)

Can you read?

hxxp://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/09/03/911-tin-foil-hats-are-melting/

[btester1]

Can you read?
hxxp://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/09/03/911-tin-foil-hats-are-melting/
New York Times reporter Jim Dwyer is a reporter not a scientist.

They like to attack Stephen Jones. He not only talk about thermite. But with simulations with real models and they didn't fall being hit by a projectile.
No mention of that. His research has been reviewed by others.

It's coming from a New York times reporter. Paid news.
So many holes in 9/11, they can't cover them all.

[btester1]

Can you read?
hxxp://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/09/03/911-tin-foil-hats-are-melting/
New York Times reporter Jim Dwyer is a reporter not a scientist.
They like to attack Stephen Jones. He not only talked about thermite. But with simulations with real models and they didn't fall being hit by a projectile.
No mention of that. His research has been reviewed by others.
It's coming from a New York times reporter. Paid news.
So many holes in 9/11, they can't cover them all.

[btester1]

Second that, but I would vote for him no matter who the Libs put up at this point. Completely interested in re-gaining power and not what is good for the country! No political initiatives! No adgenda other than they hate Bush! They don't give a whit about my country: only themselves!
Bush(the puppet) outspent every other president combined before him.
That's not very conservative. What's your point.

9/11 was an inside job. Building 7 was a controlled demolition.

[spanga]

saying it over and over doesn't make it true.....btw, bandit...thanx.....that was an interesting read......btester....there's nothing wrong with looking at both sides....for opening me up to that, i thank you as well

[BigSwifty]

Blah.. Blah.. Blah...

You of all people have no room to be calling any one a puppet.

If just one of your source(s) of (mis)information was close to centrist, you may convince someone, but all you know is left wing bullshit !

As ponted out numerous times, you aren't even from here, so who gives a shit what you say!

[Twostep]

Second that, but I would vote for him no matter who the Libs put up at this point.
So would I, Bandit - if Bush were the only game in town. I'd vote for Mili before I'd vote for Kerry or Gore...:) and not because Kerry and Gore are liberals. Because they're idiots.

Unfortunately, Bush has lost a great deal of his effectiveness as a president - it's not entirely his fault, of course - but the time has come for a new set of faces in the White House. Personally, I'd like to see a strong conservative candidate emerge, one capable of bringing this country together again. Who? I can't say. Definitely not McCain. Guiliani? Possibly. We'll know more in a year or so, as more hats get tossed into the ring.

FlashF, just what would you have us do? Run around and protest Bilderberg meetings? Why don't you try the American way of ousting those you don't care for - make a noise at the ballot box.
BTester, since you can't come over here and vote, guess you'll have to resort to carping on internet discussion forums and yelling at limousines.:p

[btester1]

I'll answer that question directly, with no spin. How's that?
1) I do NOT believe he's involved in a conspiracy of any kind.
2) I feel safer, knowing his tough stance on terror.
3) I respect and appreciate his religious beliefs and his willingness to publically proclaim them.
4) I respect his ability and willingness to forge ahead on what he believes, in the face of poor ratings and nonstop assaults from opposition parties.
I could elaborate on those points, but no need , you get the idea...now, for the downside:
1) The Bush administration and the Republican party as a whole have, in the last 6 years or so, spent money as if there's no end to it - and run the National Debt through the roof.
2) Has been pitifully weak on immigration issues. Lots of politics here, and those politics are really hurting America.
3) The war in Iraq. I'm talking about how the war has been waged, not the reasons for or against it. My grandkids could have done a better job. Time to get the job done, and get the hell out.
4) Bush needs to take some public speaking lessons. Seriously. It's hard to know how a person really feels, what their ideas really are - when that person has no ability to convey them. And he can't speak his way out of a paper sack. As a result, he and his administration come across as secretive, as if they have something to hide.
Do I like him? Sure. Would I vote for him again? No.
You sure Bush is running things. You think you have a choice when you have an election.
Have you ever wondered why they use Electronic voting machines.
68% in a zogby poll says there is a coverup in 9/11.
90% on a CNN poll.
Charlie Sheen is asking for a new investigation.
9/11 Widows have come out asking for a new investigation.
Bush is just a puppet for the establishment.
The people behind him are the Council on Foreign Relations / Bilderberg elite.
Major Mike Mccormack is the hero of 9/11.
They sent a federal swat team to his house. They terrorized him for speaking out about poisonous dust in NY.
xxxx://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/09/12484.php
This is evil stuff.
You trust your life with FEMA like in New Orleans. All this system was changed after 9/11.
You sure you feel safe with the system the way it is.

[spanga]

the problem i find with all the pro consiracy "documentaries" is that they try to establish hard evidence "ie set the hook" and then intersperse or follow up with so much conjecture....once the hard evidence is refuted there really is not much left except paranoia....moore faranheit and loosechange both follow that rather predictable pattern.....i'll give moore some points for his social commentaries on who actually gets whacked in wars ......the, rich get richer and their kids stay safe, rant does hold some water in my opinion....

[btester1]

Blah.. Blah.. Blah...
You of all people have no room to be calling any one a puppet.
If just one of your source(s) of (mis)information was close to centrist, you may convince someone, but all you know is left wing bullshit !
As ponted out numerous times, you aren't even from here, so who gives a shit what you say!
Canada's prime minister is a Bilderberg member as well as the previous one.

[BigSwifty]

Good!

Anything that pisses you off, I'm for!

[Twostep]

90% on a CNN poll.
Charlie Sheen is asking for a new investigation.

Upon which you'll get absolutely no argument from me:D

BTester, we're just not alike, pal. I can't live my life constantly worried that my government is going to hang me out to dry...I prefer to look for the good things in life, and not make a career ferreting out the bad. Life's tough enough as it is.

There ain't a damn thing you can do about it, even if what you're saying is the truth. I'm not advocating being a wallflower wuss...but there's some things you cannot change. Running around yelling at Cadillacs might work for you, but as for me, when I'm facing such a situation, I ask God to give me the strength to deal with it. That way I can get up in the morning and face the day; face my own world and my own problems.

[Budreaux]

You sure Bush is running things. You think you have a choice when you have an election.
Have you ever wondered why they use Electronic voting machines.
68% in a zogby poll says there is a coverup in 9/11.
90% on a CNN poll.
Charlie Sheen is asking for a new investigation.
9/11 Widows have come out asking for a new investigation.
Bush is just a puppet for the establishment.
The people behind him are the Council on Foreign Relations / Bilderberg elite.
Major Mike Mccormack is the hero of 9/11.
They sent a federal swat team to his house. They terrorized him for speaking out about poisonous dust in NY.
xxxx://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/09/12484.php
This is evil stuff.
You trust your life with FEMA like in New Orleans. All this system was changed after 9/11.
You sure you feel safe with the system the way it is.
And all these figures were computed manually?
They were figured electronically, and as you said, they are just as subjectable to being altered.

Budreaux

[gatekeeper5348]

i am an american and i can say this without guilt, 9/11 was an inside job anyone with half a brain can figure that out!! i believe while the piece of shit in the white house is making backdoor deals all over the world, he blinds us with immigration problems, fuel rise problems and he even went as far as to kill his own people on 9/11 to push our minds away from all the shady bullshit he pulls! just my 2 cents!

[btester1]

And all these figures were computed manually?
They were figured electronically, and as you said, they are just as subjectable to being altered.

Budreaux

Budreaux, these voting machines are subject to so many types of hacking.
Go to blackboxvoting.org . that is a good site to check it out.

If your concerned about your country. You should have a look.
-
Polls can be hacked and made up too. Yes your right if that's what your saying.
-
I'm a programmer, when I saw the backend of some of these voting machines was ms access(I saw a hacking video).
Oh my god, I said. But I believe they have them in Canada too. So poor us too.
Vote fraud was just committed in Mexico. At least they have paper ballots to count.
Mexico is owned by Chase Manhattan bank. Keeps the people as slaves.
Don't quote me on that one. There is very little middle class in Mexico.
Just wait till the North American Union comes along.

[Electric_Menace]

Jeez guys didn't you watch ZOOLANDER.
It is a fact that male supermodels are trained killers and involved in all political assasinations and agendas without knowing it.
It is only a matter of saying the trigger word.
The fashion world is responsible for all of this and that is why I only wear clothes made by me out of potato sacks.

[dw7]

Jeez guys didn't you watch ZOOLANDER.
It is a fact that male supermodels are trained killers and involved in all political assasinations and agendas without knowing it.
It is only a matter of saying the trigger word.
The fashion world is responsible for all of this and that is why I only wear clothes made by me out of potato sacks.

Finally someone has figured it out -

I have to say if i went through my daily life as angry and obessed as some of the people in this thread sound, i'd move to a kinder, gentler place to live - like the bahama's maybe

[btester1]

Finally someone has figured it out -
I have to say if i went through my daily life as angry and obessed as some of the people in this thread sound, i'd move to a kinder, gentler place to live - like the bahama's maybe
I am no comparision to Gandhi when I post this.
-
When I despair, I remember that all through history
the way of Truth and Love has always won.
There have been tyrants and murderers,
and for a time, they can seem invicible, but
in the end they will always fall. Think of it. Always.
- Gandhi

[alsouthster]

oh brother

just to correct a couple of inaccuracies that I saw while catching up on this thread...not that it will make a blind bit of difference

Steve Jones's claims were NOT peer reviewed. They were reviewed by his fellow conspiracy theorists. That's why his actual peers put him on leave. Also, it should be noted, he's a physicist whose specialty is the fringe (though not uninteresting) field of cold fusion. He is not a engineer!

The NIST IS investigating the hyphotheses of controlled blasts on Building 7. That's not because they believe it to be true! That's to a) try to shut you guys up and b) cuz that's what scientists do. Calmly and methodically investigate.

And also, to all my friends on the right wing who are calling the conspiracy cultists liberals and/or communists:
WE LIBS DON"T WANT EM
Furthermore, their hero, Alex Jones, is a vehement anti-communist
The communists don't want them either!!

[Bandit5906]

I am no comparision to Gandhi when I post this.
-
When I despair, I remember that all through history
the way of Truth and Love has always won.
There have been tyrants and murderers,
and for a time, they can seem invicible, but
in the end they will always fall. Think of it. Always.
- Gandhi

Not to dispute Ghandi, but the "way of truth and love" sometimes require personal attention to the "tyrant and murderers" and to ignor them will result in our demise.

While there are always things which we may criticise here in American; we live in the best place on God's Green Earth!

To those of you who would question this I represent that maybe you should come here to experience life in our country. We are truly blessed.

Other countries may offer some things which we cannot, but overall we have a quality that has to be lived in to appreciate: Opportunity, freedom, quality, compassion, diversity, etc.

I have lived in Liaoning,China, South Korea, Japan, India, England, France, Italy, Sweden,
Onterio Canada, and spent time in Cental & South America and (while I enjoyed and appreciated living in these many places) none of them presented the lifestyle and opportunity that America offers.

[btester1]

oh brother
just to correct a couple of inaccuracies that I saw while catching up on this thread...not that it will make a blind bit of difference
Steve Jones's claims were NOT peer reviewed. They were reviewed by his fellow conspiracy theorists. That's why his actual peers put him on leave. Also, it should be noted, he's a physicist whose specialty is the fringe (though not uninteresting) field of cold fusion. He is not a engineer!
The NIST IS investigating the hyphotheses of controlled blasts on Building 7. That's not because they believe it to be true! That's to a) try to shut you guys up and b) cuz that's what scientists do. Calmly and methodically investigate.
And also, to all my friends on the right wing who are calling the conspiracy cultists liberals and/or communists:
WE LIBS DON"T WANT EM
Furthermore, their hero, Alex Jones, is a vehement anti-communist
The communists don't want them either!!
There could be innacuracies for sure. Just like the POD theories.
But there are just too many holes.
In which official 9/11 story are you talking about.
Building 7 has been analyzed by a dutch controlled demolition expert.
He has said really, he couldn't believe it. This happened on the same day. hm...
They did a pretty good job.
Again the 9/11 report talked about a "Failure of Imagination"
If Mr Kean is right, then someone should be fired but nobody was.
Alex Jones has documentaries 100 per cent backed up by the facts.
He has over 18 million listeners.

[alsouthster]

There are anomolies in the explanation of what happened on 9/11. I will grant you that.
But it is NOT EVERY DAY that planes fly into two of the tallest structures in the world! Why is it so hard to believe that it might require further study lol. Meanwhile, your counter-hypotheses (planned by US govt, which flew planes into buildings which were loaded with bombs, while simultaneously firing a rocket into the Petangon and sending Flight 93 to...where...Mars?..while also faking the cell phone calls)
is so full of holes that it is slipping into outright madness.

[wasup]

i am an american and i can say this without guilt, 9/11 was an inside job anyone with half a brain can figure that out!! i believe while the piece of shit in the white house is making backdoor deals all over the world, he blinds us with immigration problems, fuel rise problems and he even went as far as to kill his own people on 9/11 to push our minds away from all the shady bullshit he pulls! just my 2 cents!

They don't want to believe it because it ruins their fantasy world that is feed them on the tv they have blind faith in the official conspiracy theory of the government fairy tale. I mean sometime I laugh at the obsurd story of how a hijacker's passport made it out of the airplain and unchared a few blocks away. How perfect is that to back up the story of who is reponsible. BAHAHAHAHA.

Shout it from the rooftops, WE AREN'T GANNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

:( it may be too late. :(

[Budreaux]

First off.. the creator of Loose Change admitted to having inaccurate information in his video.

He also admitted to more inaccurate information stille xsists in teh video and that it was left intentionally, to make others criticize it and prove him wrong.

Hell, he reauthored it twice.

The original videos that he pulled footage from, those that published them, brought legal action against him to remove their material or face law suits.

This is why he has re-editted it twice now.

Having had done that once, I can understand, but having done it twice tells me he wasn't interested in accurracy, more so, contraversy.

Also, you keep referring to the "Failure of Imagination" fromt eh 9/11 Commission Report.

Well, I didn't jsut read it, I watched that actual comment when it was being stated in the Report.

The man stating it was critizing the ones responsible for keeping this from happening, but even more significant ,was the fact, he was criticizing himself.

That's right, someone actually taking his responsibility and admitting to have failed his fellow Americans in his responsibilities.

Now, I for one respect that of him.

His "Failure of Imagination" comment was referring to the US not thinking outside the box as to the level a country or orginaization "may" go to, to perform acts of terroism.

It isn't an admission of intentional oversight.

Hindsight is worth it;s weight in gold and all that can be salvaged from this is a different understanding of our enemies.

We all make mistakes, at all levels, the difference is in learning or not learning from them.

The Commission report shows that we took notice and learned from our mistakes.

[Bandit5906]

I can say this: you had to be there to realize what was happening.
The noise, the smell, the sight, the feel of the earth beneath your feet! Way beyond description!

I was in VeitNam and lauching rockets everywhere and it was nothing to compare to 9/11. Maybe 9/11 was like when we dropped the bomb(s) on Japan?

I just know that 9//11 is a day that I will carry with me to my grave. I wish it was possible for me to describe.

As far as the 9/11 Commission goes; they ignored the "Able Danger" information because it did not suit their adgenda and therefore their whole report is flawed, IMAO!

[BigSwifty]

There could be innacuracies for sure. Just like the POD theories.
But there are just too many holes.....
Only holes proven in all this, is the one bewteen your ears.

Voter fraud now too, eh? Well don't forget the Kennedy's who gave us "Vote Often and Vote Twice" in Chicago in the 1960 election!

[btester1]

I can say this: you had to be there to realize what was happening.
The noise, the smell, the sight, the feel of the earth beneath your feet! Way beyond description!
I was in VeitNam and lauching rockets everywhere and it was nothing to compare to 9/11. Maybe 9/11 was like when we dropped the bomb(s) on Japan?
I just know that 9//11 is a day that I will carry with me to my grave. I wish it was possible for me to describe.
As far as the 9/11 Commission goes; they ignored the "Able Danger" information because it did not suit their adgenda and therefore their whole report is flawed, IMAO!
Bandit, did you know the Gulf of Tonkin was staged and never happened. ( search google) It was the reason to go to war in Vietnam. It's declassified now.
-
How many people died because of a lie.
I do respect your service to your country. Not like Bush.

[BigSwifty]

Sadest part of all this, is the black helicoptor following btestes doesn't pick him up! :D

[btester1]

Only holes proven in all this, is the one bewteen your ears.
Voter fraud now too, eh? Well don't forget the Kennedy's who gave us "Vote Often and Vote Twice" in Chicago in the 1960 election!
You go vote at my electronic voting machine. I can tell right now who you will vote for. Trust me, let me at that database.
You should be wary of those voting machines in November.
It's big news right now. Even Lou Dobbs is talking about it.

[BigSwifty]

So what! Any centrist sources in any of the BULLSHIT you believe in?

[btester1]

Sadest part of all this, is the black helicoptor following btestes doesn't pick him up! :D
thinking of helicopters...
Here comes the helicopter -- second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they've murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay
I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would retaliate
On the Rio Lacantun, one hundred thousand wait
To fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate
Cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would not hesitate
I want to raise every voice -- at least I've got to try
Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes.
Situation desperate, echoes of the victims cry
If I had a rocket launcher...Some son of a bitch would die
Bruce CockBurn

yeah!!! good song

[rdodhdlkadkondg]

Bush is a Bonesman. He swore allegiance to the bonesman back in college as part of their initiation ritual. He thinks he is above American law. He swore to protect and uphold the values of the Bonesman. "MONEY=POWER". Thats all its about in their world. Wake up you fukin FOx lovin Republican brainwashed motherfuckers. He's not in the game for me and you, he owes his soul to the fukin bonesman, and will do shit we dont understand to get whatever they want. END OF STORY.....

[Bandit5906]

You go vote at my electronic voting machine. I can tell right now who you will vote for. Trust me, let me at that database.
You should be wary of those voting machines in November.
It's big news right now. Even Lou Dobbs is talking about it.

So far as I have been able to figure out these new voting machines are tamper proof: at least they were during the last primary.

You worry about voting machines and we cannot even get a person to present a driver's license or identification card in order to vote.

Do you have any idea how these voting machines work. Does Lou Dobbs? I think not! Access denied!

[BigSwifty]

Hey! do you know what you are?
You're an asshole! an asshole!

Some of you might not agree
'cause you probably likes a lot of misery
But think a while and you will see...
Broken hearts are for assholes
Broken hearts are for assholes
Are you an asshole?
Broken hearts are for assholes
Are you an asshole too?
Whatcha gonna do, 'cause you're an asshole...

Broken Hearts Are For Assholes
Frank Zappa

Better Song!

[btester1]

First off.. the creator of Loose Change admitted to having inaccurate information in his video.
He also admitted to more inaccurate information stille xsists in teh video and that it was left intentionally, to make others criticize it and prove him wrong.
Hell, he reauthored it twice.
The original videos that he pulled footage from, those that published them, brought legal action against him to remove their material or face law suits.
This is why he has re-editted it twice now.
Having had done that once, I can understand, but having done it twice tells me he wasn't interested in accurracy, more so, contraversy.
Also, you keep referring to the "Failure of Imagination" fromt eh 9/11 Commission Report.
Well, I didn't jsut read it, I watched that actual comment when it was being stated in the Report.
The man stating it was critizing the ones responsible for keeping this from happening, but even more significant ,was the fact, he was criticizing himself.
That's right, someone actually taking his responsibility and admitting to have failed his fellow Americans in his responsibilities.
Now, I for one respect that of him.
His "Failure of Imagination" comment was referring to the US not thinking outside the box as to the level a country or orginaization "may" go to, to perform acts of terroism.
It isn't an admission of intentional oversight.
Hindsight is worth it;s weight in gold and all that can be salvaged from this is a different understanding of our enemies.
We all make mistakes, at all levels, the difference is in learning or not learning from them.
The Commission report shows that we took notice and learned from our mistakes.
Budreaux,
They keep making new editions. The latest one has the explosive flash from building 7. Don't quote me on that. I have to check my sources.
Maybe I'll get back to you on that.
I'm a problem solver at work. I solve puzzles, database, programs.
Science, if one fact doesn't add up. Then you have to go back and find the mistake.

[Bandit5906]

Bush is a Bonesman. He swore allegiance to the bonesman back in college as part of their initiation ritual. He thinks he is above American law. He swore to protect and uphold the values of the Bonesman. "MONEY=POWER". Thats all its about in their world. Wake up you fukin FOx lovin Republican brainwashed motherfuckers. He's not in the game for me and you, he owes his soul to the fukin bonesman, and will do shit we dont understand to get whatever they want. END OF STORY.....

Get a life! One post and you come here with your vile retoric!

[btester1]

So far as I have been able to figure out these new voting machines are tamper proof: at least they were during the last primary.
You worry about voting machines and we cannot even get a person to present a driver's license or identification card in order to vote.
Do you have any idea how these voting machines work. Does Lou Dobbs? I think not! Access denied!

Go to research how to hack a voting machine at blackboxvoting.org.

[Bandit5906]

Go to research how to hack a voting machine at blackboxvoting.org.

Total BS on that site. I've worked to polls have you?

[BigSwifty]

I'd much rather be a "you fukin FOx lovin Republican brainwashed motherfuckers" than a left winged dicksucker.

And if you'd keep your mother off the streets, we wouldn't have those issues either!

[btester1]

Get a life! One post and you come here with your vile retoric!
You like George Bush bandit. Let's have some fun with it.
Is he a christian?
George Bush is not Conservative. He is a Liberal and I can prove it.
Look at the debt. Outspent all presidents combined before him.
Debt is owed to Red China.
I'm not saying Canada is any better either.
-
Bush is just a puppet to the Globalists.

[Budreaux]

Budreaux,
They keep making new editions. The latest one has the explosive flash from building 7. Don't quote me on that. I have to check my sources.
Maybe I'll get back to you on that.
I'm a problem solver at work. I solve puzzles, database, programs.
Science, if one fact doesn't add up. Then you have to go back and find the mistake.
I'm sorry, but you are misinformed about the new editions.
They have been re-editted due to incosistancies.
All you have to do is ready the reasons why they were re-editted and then go wacth the successional releases and see that they were indeed editted to remove the evidnce that was inaccurate or demanded by the origianl researchers to remove for being presented falsely.
When I read the actual statments of the creator (forgive me for never remembering his name in all this), he stated h imself, along with his partner, that they know there is inaccuracies in their video still and they choose to leave it in in hopes that it will make others review and discredit it. That is a huge statment, one that tells me he isn't believing his own work, but was more interested in the grade he was receiving. Remember, this video started out as a college class assignment.

[btester1]

Total BS on that site. I've worked to polls have you?
No but I see the database behind that software. I know I can get in there.
Can you? Is there a such thing as a virus?

[alsouthster]

Watch out where the huskies go
and don't you eat that yellow snow

now THAT is good advice for Canadians

p.s. not suggesting yellow snow was involved in Building 7

[Budreaux]

Get a life! One post and you come here with your vile retoric!
You should have figured it out by now, but these one post wonders are btester.

I've watched it since a post a while back stated how he admired btester for facing all this attacking but never posted anything disrespectful.

Then, I went back to start copy/pasting his posts where he was calling various folks names and using insulting remarks..

Guess what, they were all gone.

Then these one post wonders start poping up and btester is tghe first to start responding to the negativity against the one posters.

It isn't science, it;s just obvious.

[Budreaux]

No but I see the database behind that software. I know I can get in there.
Can you? Is there a such thing as a virus?
Yes, and viruses leave huge trails.

[btester1]

I'm sorry, but you are misinformed about the new editions.
They have been re-editted due to incosistancies.
All you have to do is ready the reasons why they were re-editted and then go wacth the successional releases and see that they were indeed editted to remove the evidnce that was inaccurate or demanded by the origianl researchers to remove for being presented falsely.
When I read the actual statments of the creator (forgive me for never remembering his name in all this), he stated h imself, along with his partner, that they know there is inaccuracies in their video still and they choose to leave it in in hopes that it will make others review and discredit it. That is a huge statment, one that tells me he isn't believing his own work, but was more interested in the grade he was receiving. Remember, this video started out as a college class assignment.
Budreaux,
If you can point out some innacuracies in the video. By all means.
That is the reason why they come out with new editions.
It's a 3 hour video. They try to pride themselves on accuracy.
They have debated popular mechanics to the point where popular mechanics
called them holocaust deniers because they were loosing so badly.(Democracy Now)
They only made that video with 6000 dollars.
They admitted some errors yes but corrected them.
It is better than Bin Laden in a cave in Afganistan commanding it all.
Failure of imagination. That's doesn't cut it for a scientist.
Doesn't give me a good feeling.

[btester1]

Yes, and viruses leave huge trails.
I'm telling you from experience.
There are not only virus methods, but changing memory cards and others.
Go to the site.
I know my stuff, I build databases and software. I know what viruses
can do. Your lucky if you have norton anti virus on your computer.

[BigSwifty]

When you find a scientist, bring him into this thread.

Opinion & conjecture doesn't make science!

Especially when it polictically motivated.

[BigSwifty]

I'm telling you from experience.
There are not only virus methods, but changing memory cards and others.
Go to the site.
I know my stuff, I build databases and software. I know what viruses
can do. Your lucky if you have norton anti virus on your computer.

Norton eh?

That proves you don't know fuqq about shit!

[btester1]

Hey! do you know what you are?
You're an asshole! an asshole!
Some of you might not agree
'cause you probably likes a lot of misery
But think a while and you will see...
Broken hearts are for assholes
Broken hearts are for assholes
Are you an asshole?
Broken hearts are for assholes
Are you an asshole too?
Whatcha gonna do, 'cause you're an asshole...
Broken Hearts Are For Assholes
Frank Zappa
Better Song!

I like his Frank Zappa's song Valley girl.
That was awesome.
-
If I had a rocket launcher, some son of a bitch would die.
When he wrote that, it was from personal experience of seeing Helicopters come
down and kill people.

[alsouthster]

Sigh
Popular Mechanics didn't call them Holocaust deniers you dope
They were trying to make the point that their/your argument was/is specious/preposterous/flawed

They were comparing it to other specious arguments ...where you target a few minor anomolies and then trash the entire existence of something that has overwhelming proof

like for example Intelligent Design attacking evolution ...oops, sorry, that's my own example hahahahaa

anway, whether you know it or not, the argumentative strategy you are using is very similar to that used by the holocaust deniers.....
NOt that Im not calling you a holocaust denier...you got that?

[btester1]

Norton eh?

That proves you don't know fuqq about shit!

Do you have a version of norton antivirus on a voting machine?

[Budreaux]

Budreaux,
If you can point out some innacuracies in the video. By all means.
That is the reason why they come out with new editions.
It's a 3 hour video. They try to pride themselves on accuracy.
They have debated popular mechanics to the point where popular mechanics
called them holocaust deniers because they were loosing so badly.(Democracy Now)
They only made that video with 6000 dollars.
They admitted some errors yes but corrected them.
It is better than Bin Laden in a cave in Afganistan commanding it all.
Failure of imagination. That's doesn't cut it for a scientist.
Doesn't give me a good feeling.
History
Avery had originally been planning to make a fictional story about a possible conspiracy related to the attacks of 9/11, called Loose Change. Avery claims that he began to believe that there was an actual cover up over the 9/11 attacks during research for this film, and that the genre switched to a documentary after discussion with his childhood friend Korey Rowe. Rowe, a soldier who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, became the producer of Loose Change, while Jason Bermas became the film's researcher.
* The first edition cost around $2000 to make and was released in April of 2005. This edition of the film featured material on a device (which the filmmakers refer to as a "pod") under the fuselage of Flight 175 that struck the South Tower. The "pod" was presented as evidence that the planes in the attack were replaced with remote-controlled drones. It came under heavy criticism for its inclusion.
* The second edition, released in November of 2005 was made for $6000. This edition was heavily edited and included a new intro as well as extra footage which Avery purchased on Ebay. The "pod" segment was removed due to space limitations. This film also takes a different stand on Flight 93, the first edition claimed it was to be shot down by a military aircraft, while the Second Edition claims Flight 93 landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport.
* In August of 2006 a recut version of Loose Change 2nd Edition was released, which corrected many errors in the original release as well as removed some infringing material taken from the Naudet brothers documentary 9/11.
The documentary is available for purchase and distribution through its official website. It can also be viewed for free online and downloaded at Google Video, where it held the first position in the top ranking of available videos until mid 2006. According to Broadcast magazine, the film was to have a special screening at the Houses of Parliament on June 14th, 2006.[ However, Michael Meacher, the British MP who had considered sponsoring the screening, decided against it.
After releasing the film, Avery, Rowe and Bermas set up an independent film production company called Louder than Words. The company is also a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement and holds yearly protests in New York City on the anniversary of September 11th.
Dylan Avery
Dylan Avery is director, narrator and a producer of Loose Change. Avery is from Oneonta, New York. Avery says he originally planned his documentary to be a fictional story but eventually became convinced the September 11, 2001 attacks were an "inside job".
According to Avery, calls from passengers on the hijacked flights on September 11 were faked. Avery also claims that the father of Bernard Brown, an eleven year old boy who was a passenger on flight 77, was a "government shill" with foreknowledge of the attacks, who "sent his son to die".
In June of 2006, he appeared at the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Symposium in Los Angeles, California. Avery was interviewed on The John Ziegler Show but the interview was cut short when Avery and his companion stormed out of the studio after just one segment, upset that Ziegler was challenging the film.
Korey Rowe
Korey Rowe is a producer of Loose Change. Rowe was born in Oneonta, New York. He is a former US soldier who served six months in Kandahar, Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq. After leaving the military, he joined the production of Loose Change.
Jason Bermas
Jason Bermas is a graphic designer and producer of Loose Change and a webmaster, located in New York.
Presentation
Loose Change is approximately an hour and 22 minutes. The movie consists of still photographs and news footage of events relating to 9/11, which are shown against a hip-hop beat, while the narration takes place. Video and still footage used includes considerable video content from CNN, NBC, and FOX News, as well as a number of other public domain sources.
It is narrated by Dylan Avery, who is shown only in the bonus features.
Loose Change has six sections:
"Timeframe"
* Includes background information of Operation Northwoods, a plan put forward in the days of the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) to employ fake terrorist attacks in Cuba as a pretext for invasion of the island. It also planned to switch out real commercial airliners with drone planes, and tests the effect of using them as weapons, all the while seeming to be an accident. It then presents certain events as evidence of this practice being used in the attacks of September 11, 2001.
"Pentagon"
* Alleges that the hijacker pilot on American Airlines Flight 77 had difficulty performing basic controls on a small Cessna at the flight school he trained and that perhaps not even an experienced pilot could have maneuvered the turn angle at the airspeed and altitude at which the aircraft approached without stalling.
* Alleges that Flight 77 could not have crashed into the Pentagon and that damage sustained to the building may have been caused by a cruise missile or a smaller military aircraft. It defends this by:
o Examining the size of the hole in the Pentagon caused by the crash, examining a presumed lack of debris and landscape damage consistent with prior airliner crashes.
o Concluding that too few parts were recovered from the crash site to reliably ascertain that they were of a Boeing 757 and a certain flywheel observed at the site seemed too small to have been part of the aircraft's engine turbine and subsequently concluded by officials to have been part of the APU was repudiated by some experts as not to have come from the APU of a 757.
[edit]
"World Trade Center"
* Suggests that the actual collapses of the World Trade Centers 1, 2 and 7 were not triggered by the plane crashes but by a series of explosions within the buildings that were detonated shortly before each building collapsed, and supports this with eye witness reports from a janitor, firemen, and other people near the buildings who heard bangs, many of them describing them as explosions; videotapes showing windows far below the burning floors blow out during the collapse, and seismograph results recorded during the collapse compared to the collapse of other similar buildings. The movie also proves that all the buildings came down at near free-fall speed and that, therefore, the official story that the buildings pancaked is impossible without breaking the laws of physics.
"Flight 93"
* Suggests that United Airlines Flight 93 did not crash in rural Shanksville, Pennsylvania but actually landed safely at Cleveland Hopkins Airport where it was evacuated by government personnel into an unused NASA research center. Uses photographs and eye-witness reports of the crash site as evidence, suggesting that they show a lack of debris or severity of damage to the crash site, a corresponding evacuation at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to another hijacked plane and the corresponding reports, oddities in the transcripts of cell-phone calls supposedly placed from the plane during the hijacking, and the sighting of the tail number of Flight 93 on an aircraft in use at a later date. Also claims that the United Airlines plane was not scheduled to fly on September 11, 2001.
"Oddities"
* Asserts that cellular phone calls could not be made from American Airlines flights at the time of the crash. The film cites as evidence a later system installed in American Airlines planes which allowed the reception of cellular signals within the planes. It questions why such a system would be needed if cellular transmissions were already possible within commercial airliners.
* Suggests that cell phone calls from passengers and crew were faked using sophisticated voice-morphing technology developed by the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and that the December 13, 2001 video of Osama Bin Laden admitting guilt was also faked.
* Asserts that of the list of hijackers initially released by the government, many were not in the planes and were alive after September 11, 2001 and may even still be alive and that some of the listed men were indeed pilots or flying students whose identities were supposedly duplicated and some of them made public appearances in their respective home countries to clear themselves of any involvement.
"Cui Bono"
* Outlines possible motives for the attacks.
* Alleges that Larry Silverstein stood to benefit significantly from the destruction of the towers, from an insurance policy with a specific anti-terrorism clause, which had a maximum payout claim of $7 billion (counting each plane as a separate attack). Silverstein took full ownership of the WTC complex 6 weeks before 9/11 after signing a 99 year contract.
* Alleges that some investors engaged in insider trading with an apparent foreknowledge of the eventual destruction of the towers. Reportedly $2.5 million remains outstanding in unclaimed airline shorting profits, after the alleged insider trading was exposed by the press.
* Suggests that billions of dollars in gold bars were secretly transported away from the World Trade Center before the Twin Towers collapsed.
* Claims significant discrepancies in gold stored in the WTC complex, and gold subsequently recovered, to a value of hundreds of millions of dollars.
* States that $100 million went missing in anomalous financial transactions after the first plane hit and before the towers went down. The transactions were later recovered by a data company from hard drives in the rubble of the towers. Claims that, despite a standing legal obligation to investigate all reported crimes, for unknown reasons the FBI refused to pursue the matter.
* States companies linked to the Bush administration, such as Halliburton, subsequently made billions of dollars in profit from no-bid contracts as part of the unfolding 'global war on terror.'
* States that building 7 housed thousands of files related to SEC fraud investigations, especially Enron, and that the destruction of the building effectively ended large numbers of cases.
* Alleges that the Project for the New American Century, a conservative thinktank boasting members among the Bush administration and associates might have been involved. The film cites as evidence Rebuilding America's Defenses, a document distributed by the organization that stresses a renewal of United States military involvement in the Middle East. Most notably the document speculates that a terrorist attack would serve as a galvanizing event in the United States, and possibly provide a pretext to politically re-shape the Middle East. The document also mentions the potential to take control of strategic oil reserves around the Persian Gulf and in the Caspian Sea oil basin region.
Legal problems
On May 26, 2006 a certified letter was sent to Dylan Avery regarding copyright and trademark infringement resulting from the use of footage from French film makers, the Naudet brothers. The letter states that Avery used, "copyrighted images from the 9/11 Film," and also states the images violate, "the Federal Lanham Trademark Act by suggesting that the Naudet brothers or Mr. Hanlon have endorsed or sponsored the controversial views in your film." The letter concludes: "Accordingly, we hereby demand that you confirm to us within three (3) business days of the receipt of this letter that you have removed all footage taken from our clients' 9/11 Film from your Loose Change Film, including from the version of your film that can be downloaded on the Internet, the DVD version of your film, and anywhere else you have used or are using our clients' footage." In July of 2006 Dylan Avery announced that the recut version of the film would omit "some" of the infringing material.
Criticism
Three different point-by-point critiques were prepared by 911research.wtc7.net, Internet Detectives and Mark Roberts. A commenter at Screw Loose Change named Mark Iradian prepared an edited version of Loose Change, subtitled with criticisms drawing on work by Roberts, Screw Loose Change, and his own efforts. Mark Roberts also compiled a lengthy selection of interview quotes in which the Loose Change creators elaborate on the claims made in the film, Loose Change Creators Speak (PDF file).
What many of the the critiques agree on is that Loose Change uses unreliable sources, oversimplified arguments and selective facts to maintain there are problems with the events of September 11th:
* Compares the Collapse of the World Trade Center to other notable high rise fires, but does not clarify differences in building design and size, structural damage and compromised fireproofing. There is no exploration on the effect of fire on unprotected structural steel, which "loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F." Kevin Ryan the "expert" source from Underwriters Laboratories for steel certification is actually a non-expert from a subsidiary for water testing. Underwriters Laboratories does not certify structural steel, and ASTM E119 certification involves intact fireproofing as conducted by Underwriters Laboratories for the NIST in 2004.
* Loose Change is especially skeptical with the lack of readily visible airplane debris and bodies in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crashes. It uses other airline disasters as evidence there should be larger debris found. However, those crashes were accidents where pilots were trying to save their aircraft; rather than deliberately crashing them. A video of what happens to a fighter jet and its heavy engine when crashed into a concrete barrier can provide a more accurate comparison. Substantial amounts of debris and body parts were recovered from both crash sites as the recovery operations began.
* While some of the calls from Flight 93 were made with Airfones, the documentary asserts that other calls made with cell phones could not have happened from cruising altitudes. However, in the recent book "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts" by Popular Mechanics editors (ISBN 158816635X), they point out Flight 93's altitude was lower and it was frequently over rural areas with powerful cell towers. The primary reason airlines are testing cell phone systems in their planes is because it is a cost effective replacement to the Airfone that is being phased out of commercial airlines. It also improves reception (cell calls were dropped on Flight 93), allows phones to work over the ocean, decreases the chance of interferance with the avionics and flight crews can disable the phones.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology has released a point-by-point rebuttal of many common alternative theories of the WTC collapse, including theories which Loose Change used. On September 11th, 2006, Democracy Now! conducted an exclusive discussion with Loose Change's creators and Popular Mechanics editors, where they debate various aspects of the documentary. American humorist Maddox, author of the satirical humor website The Best Page In The Universe, wrote an article on his website that criticised and lampooned the video and its producers.
Critics point out the documentary quote mines sources, uses unreliable or out of date single sources and cherry picks interview footage. It quotes Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on its maneuverability; but it leaves out the end of the statement, "... you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller, as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash; over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12 passengers "using mostly dental records." There is an interview of chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills when he took lessons at Freeway Airport; it fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to hit the Pentagon. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it."
In addition, many within the 9-11 research community point out the film's focus upon the Pentagon crash as a weakness. Chris Farrell, the Director of Investigations & Research at Judicial Watch, warned in an interview that his organization "could be the water carriers for a honey pot operation, in which the government attracts overwhelming attention to the Pentagon issue, making it the cornerstone of the 9/11 truth movement, and then blowing it out of the water by releasing clear footage of Flight 77." He stated, "Let's just call it a baited trap, it draws somebody into a situation in which they're compromised."
Corrections
The original release of Loose Change Second Edition had several factual inaccuracies which have been corrected (or removed) in the recut Second Edition. The most notable are:
* The New York's Empire State Building was not hit by a B-52 in 1945, but rather a B-25 Mitchell which is less than one-third the size of a B-52. (the first prototype B-52 would not fly for another seven years)
* The suggestion that $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center was removed as it exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion. The "$230 million in precious metals" stored at the WTC complex were in fact recovered.
* Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy, when in fact the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. Bollyn, an American Free Press reporter whom Loose Change references got the incorrect information from a factory in Indiana which makes engines for smaller aircraft; rather than the companies in Quebec and Derby that overhaul the 757 engines.
In response to some of these Korey Rowe, the producer of the "Second Edition", claimed in an interview, “We know there are errors in the documentary, and we’ve actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves.”

[btester1]

Sigh
Popular Mechanics didn't call them Holocaust deniers you dope
They were trying to make the point that their/your argument was/is specious/preposterous/flawed
They were comparing it to other specious arguments ...where you target a few minor anomolies and then trash the entire existence of something that has overwhelming proof
like for example Intelligent Design attacking evolution ...oops, sorry, that's my own example hahahahaa
anway, whether you know it or not, the argumentative strategy you are using is very similar to that used by the holocaust deniers.....
NOt that Im not calling you a holocaust denier...you got that?
They compared them to holocaust deniers. yes they did.
They were loosing so badly, they couldn't say anything relevant.

[Bandit5906]

btester1:

Have you ever been anywhere or done anything other than protest something you know nothing about? No, I thought not!
An example would be the Kyoto Accord: which no one here in America would ever agree too. The biggest offenders would be the third world countries who have been excluded form having to comply to this amazing BS.

The USA (who is supposedly the biggest offender and remember they have to comply) produces about 100 million tons of CO2 in total a year), but China produces 3.5 Billion (yes, a Billion) Metric tons of CO2 with only the coal they burn and that does not include any other fossel fuels. India produces 2.55 Billion Metric Tons of CO2 from their fossel fuels and the rest of the third world countries produce collectively 3.8 Billion metric tons of CO2 from their fossel fuels but all of them are let off the hook.

In China all people have to wear masks (like we do when creating dust from sanding, painting, etc.) when they go outside. They then buy their food from open markets, but have to take off their shoes when they enter a dwelling so they do not track in the soot/dirt. You cannot see the sun until you get over Korea in an airplane and when you get to the USA you can then see the land. You know right away when you are in Alaska because you can see where you are.

We have it so good and have no idea what the rest of the world lives like. Neither do you, IMHO!

[Budreaux]

Do you have a version of norton antivirus on a voting machine?
I woud not use NAV.... I've had my fair share of experience with viruses and anti-viruses as well.

If you are gonna sit there and recommend NAV, then you just lost any credibility you may have had in this area.

The reasons why are teh reasons you should know if you are as experinced as you say in th is area.

Budreaux

[btester1]

History
Avery had originally been planning to make a fictional story about a possible conspiracy related to the attacks of 9/11, called Loose Change. Avery claims that he began to believe that there was an actual cover up over the 9/11 attacks during research for this film, and that the genre switched to a documentary after discussion with his childhood friend Korey Rowe. Rowe, a soldier who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, became the producer of Loose Change, while Jason Bermas became the film's researcher.
* The first edition cost around $2000 to make and was released in April of 2005. This edition of the film featured material on a device (which the filmmakers refer to as a "pod") under the fuselage of Flight 175 that struck the South Tower. The "pod" was presented as evidence that the planes in the attack were replaced with remote-controlled drones. It came under heavy criticism for its inclusion.
* The second edition, released in November of 2005 was made for $6000. This edition was heavily edited and included a new intro as well as extra footage which Avery purchased on Ebay. The "pod" segment was removed due to space limitations. This film also takes a different stand on Flight 93, the first edition claimed it was to be shot down by a military aircraft, while the Second Edition claims Flight 93 landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport.
* In August of 2006 a recut version of Loose Change 2nd Edition was released, which corrected many errors in the original release as well as removed some infringing material taken from the Naudet brothers documentary 9/11.
The documentary is available for purchase and distribution through its official website. It can also be viewed for free online and downloaded at Google Video, where it held the first position in the top ranking of available videos until mid 2006. According to Broadcast magazine, the film was to have a special screening at the Houses of Parliament on June 14th, 2006.[ However, Michael Meacher, the British MP who had considered sponsoring the screening, decided against it.
After releasing the film, Avery, Rowe and Bermas set up an independent film production company called Louder than Words. The company is also a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement and holds yearly protests in New York City on the anniversary of September 11th.
Dylan Avery
Dylan Avery is director, narrator and a producer of Loose Change. Avery is from Oneonta, New York. Avery says he originally planned his documentary to be a fictional story but eventually became convinced the September 11, 2001 attacks were an "inside job".
According to Avery, calls from passengers on the hijacked flights on September 11 were faked. Avery also claims that the father of Bernard Brown, an eleven year old boy who was a passenger on flight 77, was a "government shill" with foreknowledge of the attacks, who "sent his son to die".
In June of 2006, he appeared at the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Symposium in Los Angeles, California. Avery was interviewed on The John Ziegler Show but the interview was cut short when Avery and his companion stormed out of the studio after just one segment, upset that Ziegler was challenging the film.
Korey Rowe
Korey Rowe is a producer of Loose Change. Rowe was born in Oneonta, New York. He is a former US soldier who served six months in Kandahar, Afghanistan and one year in Kuwait and Iraq. After leaving the military, he joined the production of Loose Change.
Jason Bermas
Jason Bermas is a graphic designer and producer of Loose Change and a webmaster, located in New York.
Presentation
Loose Change is approximately an hour and 22 minutes. The movie consists of still photographs and news footage of events relating to 9/11, which are shown against a hip-hop beat, while the narration takes place. Video and still footage used includes considerable video content from CNN, NBC, and FOX News, as well as a number of other public domain sources.
It is narrated by Dylan Avery, who is shown only in the bonus features.
Loose Change has six sections:
"Timeframe"
* Includes background information of Operation Northwoods, a plan put forward in the days of the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) to employ fake terrorist attacks in Cuba as a pretext for invasion of the island. It also planned to switch out real commercial airliners with drone planes, and tests the effect of using them as weapons, all the while seeming to be an accident. It then presents certain events as evidence of this practice being used in the attacks of September 11, 2001.
"Pentagon"
* Alleges that the hijacker pilot on American Airlines Flight 77 had difficulty performing basic controls on a small Cessna at the flight school he trained and that perhaps not even an experienced pilot could have maneuvered the turn angle at the airspeed and altitude at which the aircraft approached without stalling.
* Alleges that Flight 77 could not have crashed into the Pentagon and that damage sustained to the building may have been caused by a cruise missile or a smaller military aircraft. It defends this by:
o Examining the size of the hole in the Pentagon caused by the crash, examining a presumed lack of debris and landscape damage consistent with prior airliner crashes.
o Concluding that too few parts were recovered from the crash site to reliably ascertain that they were of a Boeing 757 and a certain flywheel observed at the site seemed too small to have been part of the aircraft's engine turbine and subsequently concluded by officials to have been part of the APU was repudiated by some experts as not to have come from the APU of a 757.
[edit]
"World Trade Center"
* Suggests that the actual collapses of the World Trade Centers 1, 2 and 7 were not triggered by the plane crashes but by a series of explosions within the buildings that were detonated shortly before each building collapsed, and supports this with eye witness reports from a janitor, firemen, and other people near the buildings who heard bangs, many of them describing them as explosions; videotapes showing windows far below the burning floors blow out during the collapse, and seismograph results recorded during the collapse compared to the collapse of other similar buildings. The movie also proves that all the buildings came down at near free-fall speed and that, therefore, the official story that the buildings pancaked is impossible without breaking the laws of physics.
"Flight 93"
* Suggests that United Airlines Flight 93 did not crash in rural Shanksville, Pennsylvania but actually landed safely at Cleveland Hopkins Airport where it was evacuated by government personnel into an unused NASA research center. Uses photographs and eye-witness reports of the crash site as evidence, suggesting that they show a lack of debris or severity of damage to the crash site, a corresponding evacuation at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to another hijacked plane and the corresponding reports, oddities in the transcripts of cell-phone calls supposedly placed from the plane during the hijacking, and the sighting of the tail number of Flight 93 on an aircraft in use at a later date. Also claims that the United Airlines plane was not scheduled to fly on September 11, 2001.
"Oddities"
* Asserts that cellular phone calls could not be made from American Airlines flights at the time of the crash. The film cites as evidence a later system installed in American Airlines planes which allowed the reception of cellular signals within the planes. It questions why such a system would be needed if cellular transmissions were already possible within commercial airliners.
* Suggests that cell phone calls from passengers and crew were faked using sophisticated voice-morphing technology developed by the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and that the December 13, 2001 video of Osama Bin Laden admitting guilt was also faked.
* Asserts that of the list of hijackers initially released by the government, many were not in the planes and were alive after September 11, 2001 and may even still be alive and that some of the listed men were indeed pilots or flying students whose identities were supposedly duplicated and some of them made public appearances in their respective home countries to clear themselves of any involvement.
"Cui Bono"
* Outlines possible motives for the attacks.
* Alleges that Larry Silverstein stood to benefit significantly from the destruction of the towers, from an insurance policy with a specific anti-terrorism clause, which had a maximum payout claim of $7 billion (counting each plane as a separate attack). Silverstein took full ownership of the WTC complex 6 weeks before 9/11 after signing a 99 year contract.
* Alleges that some investors engaged in insider trading with an apparent foreknowledge of the eventual destruction of the towers. Reportedly $2.5 million remains outstanding in unclaimed airline shorting profits, after the alleged insider trading was exposed by the press.
* Suggests that billions of dollars in gold bars were secretly transported away from the World Trade Center before the Twin Towers collapsed.
* Claims significant discrepancies in gold stored in the WTC complex, and gold subsequently recovered, to a value of hundreds of millions of dollars.
* States that $100 million went missing in anomalous financial transactions after the first plane hit and before the towers went down. The transactions were later recovered by a data company from hard drives in the rubble of the towers. Claims that, despite a standing legal obligation to investigate all reported crimes, for unknown reasons the FBI refused to pursue the matter.
* States companies linked to the Bush administration, such as Halliburton, subsequently made billions of dollars in profit from no-bid contracts as part of the unfolding 'global war on terror.'
* States that building 7 housed thousands of files related to SEC fraud investigations, especially Enron, and that the destruction of the building effectively ended large numbers of cases.
* Alleges that the Project for the New American Century, a conservative thinktank boasting members among the Bush administration and associates might have been involved. The film cites as evidence Rebuilding America's Defenses, a document distributed by the organization that stresses a renewal of United States military involvement in the Middle East. Most notably the document speculates that a terrorist attack would serve as a galvanizing event in the United States, and possibly provide a pretext to politically re-shape the Middle East. The document also mentions the potential to take control of strategic oil reserves around the Persian Gulf and in the Caspian Sea oil basin region.
Legal problems
On May 26, 2006 a certified letter was sent to Dylan Avery regarding copyright and trademark infringement resulting from the use of footage from French film makers, the Naudet brothers. The letter states that Avery used, "copyrighted images from the 9/11 Film," and also states the images violate, "the Federal Lanham Trademark Act by suggesting that the Naudet brothers or Mr. Hanlon have endorsed or sponsored the controversial views in your film." The letter concludes: "Accordingly, we hereby demand that you confirm to us within three (3) business days of the receipt of this letter that you have removed all footage taken from our clients' 9/11 Film from your Loose Change Film, including from the version of your film that can be downloaded on the Internet, the DVD version of your film, and anywhere else you have used or are using our clients' footage." In July of 2006 Dylan Avery announced that the recut version of the film would omit "some" of the infringing material.
Criticism
Three different point-by-point critiques were prepared by 911research.wtc7.net, Internet Detectives and Mark Roberts. A commenter at Screw Loose Change named Mark Iradian prepared an edited version of Loose Change, subtitled with criticisms drawing on work by Roberts, Screw Loose Change, and his own efforts. Mark Roberts also compiled a lengthy selection of interview quotes in which the Loose Change creators elaborate on the claims made in the film, Loose Change Creators Speak (PDF file).
What many of the the critiques agree on is that Loose Change uses unreliable sources, oversimplified arguments and selective facts to maintain there are problems with the events of September 11th:
* Compares the Collapse of the World Trade Center to other notable high rise fires, but does not clarify differences in building design and size, structural damage and compromised fireproofing. There is no exploration on the effect of fire on unprotected structural steel, which "loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F." Kevin Ryan the "expert" source from Underwriters Laboratories for steel certification is actually a non-expert from a subsidiary for water testing. Underwriters Laboratories does not certify structural steel, and ASTM E119 certification involves intact fireproofing as conducted by Underwriters Laboratories for the NIST in 2004.
* Loose Change is especially skeptical with the lack of readily visible airplane debris and bodies in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crashes. It uses other airline disasters as evidence there should be larger debris found. However, those crashes were accidents where pilots were trying to save their aircraft; rather than deliberately crashing them. A video of what happens to a fighter jet and its heavy engine when crashed into a concrete barrier can provide a more accurate comparison. Substantial amounts of debris and body parts were recovered from both crash sites as the recovery operations began.
* While some of the calls from Flight 93 were made with Airfones, the documentary asserts that other calls made with cell phones could not have happened from cruising altitudes. However, in the recent book "Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts" by Popular Mechanics editors (ISBN 158816635X), they point out Flight 93's altitude was lower and it was frequently over rural areas with powerful cell towers. The primary reason airlines are testing cell phone systems in their planes is because it is a cost effective replacement to the Airfone that is being phased out of commercial airlines. It also improves reception (cell calls were dropped on Flight 93), allows phones to work over the ocean, decreases the chance of interferance with the avionics and flight crews can disable the phones.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology has released a point-by-point rebuttal of many common alternative theories of the WTC collapse, including theories which Loose Change used. On September 11th, 2006, Democracy Now! conducted an exclusive discussion with Loose Change's creators and Popular Mechanics editors, where they debate various aspects of the documentary. American humorist Maddox, author of the satirical humor website The Best Page In The Universe, wrote an article on his website that criticised and lampooned the video and its producers.
Critics point out the documentary quote mines sources, uses unreliable or out of date single sources and cherry picks interview footage. It quotes Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on its maneuverability; but it leaves out the end of the statement, "... you don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller, as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash; over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12 passengers "using mostly dental records." There is an interview of chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills when he took lessons at Freeway Airport; it fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to hit the Pentagon. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it."
In addition, many within the 9-11 research community point out the film's focus upon the Pentagon crash as a weakness. Chris Farrell, the Director of Investigations & Research at Judicial Watch, warned in an interview that his organization "could be the water carriers for a honey pot operation, in which the government attracts overwhelming attention to the Pentagon issue, making it the cornerstone of the 9/11 truth movement, and then blowing it out of the water by releasing clear footage of Flight 77." He stated, "Let's just call it a baited trap, it draws somebody into a situation in which they're compromised."
Corrections
The original release of Loose Change Second Edition had several factual inaccuracies which have been corrected (or removed) in the recut Second Edition. The most notable are:
* The New York's Empire State Building was not hit by a B-52 in 1945, but rather a B-25 Mitchell which is less than one-third the size of a B-52. (the first prototype B-52 would not fly for another seven years)
* The suggestion that $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center was removed as it exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion. The "$230 million in precious metals" stored at the WTC complex were in fact recovered.
* Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy, when in fact the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. Bollyn, an American Free Press reporter whom Loose Change references got the incorrect information from a factory in Indiana which makes engines for smaller aircraft; rather than the companies in Quebec and Derby that overhaul the 757 engines.
In response to some of these Korey Rowe, the producer of the "Second Edition", claimed in an interview, “We know there are errors in the documentary, and we’ve actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves.”
According to your information:
-
-
* The New York's Empire State Building was not hit by a B-52 in 1945, but rather a B-25 Mitchell which is less than one-third the size of a B-52. (the first prototype B-52 would not fly for another seven years)
* The suggestion that $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center was removed as it exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion. The "$230 million in precious metals" stored at the WTC complex were in fact recovered.
* Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy, when in fact the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. Bollyn, an American Free Press reporter whom Loose Change references got the incorrect information from a factory in Indiana which makes engines for smaller aircraft; rather than the companies in Quebec and Derby that overhaul the 757 engines.
In response to some of these Korey Rowe, the producer of the "Second Edition", claimed in an interview, “We know there are errors in the documentary, and we’ve actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves.”
---------------------
Make me wonder if you saw the documentary Budreaux. Go and see it.
This is very little information that was corrected.

[BigSwifty]

I like his Frank Zappa's song Valley girl.
That was awesome.
-
If I had a rocket launcher, some son of a bitch would die.
When he wrote that, it was from personal experience of seeing Helicopters come
down and kill people.
----Valley Girl

Frank zappa (lead guitar, vocals)
Steve vai (guitar)
Ray white (rhythm guitar, vocals)
Tommy mars (keyboards)
Bobby martin (keyboards, saxophone, vocals)
Ed mann (percussion)
Chad wackerman (drums)
Roy estrada (vocals)
Ike willis (vocals)
Bob harris (vocals)
Moon zappa (vocals)
Scott thunes (bass)

Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Okay, fine...
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a valley girl
In a clothing store
Okay, fine...
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a

Like, oh my god! (valley girl)
Like - totally (valley girl)
Encino is like so bitchen (valley girl)
There's like the galleria (valley girl)
And like all these like really great shoe stores
I love going into like clothing stores and stuff
I like buy the neatest mini-skirts and stuff
It's like so bitchen cuz like everybody's like
Super-super nice...
It's like so bitchen...

On ventura, there she goes
She just bought some bitchen clothes
Tosses her head 'n flips her hair
She got a whole bunch of nothin' in there

Anyway, he goes are you into s and m?
I go, oh right...
Could you like just picture me in like a leather teddy
Yeah right, hurt me, hurt me...
I'm sure! no way!
He was like freaking me out...
He called me a beastie...
That's cuz like he was totally blitzed
He goes like bag your face!
I'm sure!

Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Okay, fine...
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a valley girl
So sweet 'n pure
Okay, fine...
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a
It's really sad (valley girl)
Like my english teacher
He's like... (valley girl)
He's like mr. bu-fu (valley girl)
We're talking lord god king bu-fu (valley girl)
I am so sure
He's like so gross
He like sits there and like plays with all his rings
And he like flirts with all the guys in the class
It's like totally disgusting
I'm like so sure
It's like barf me out...
Gag me with a spoon!

Last idea to cross her mind
Had something to do with where to find
A pair of jeans to fit her butt
And where to get her toenails cut

So like i go into this like salon place, y'know
And i wanted like to get my toenails done
And the lady like goes, oh my god, your toenails

(http://www.dssftp.com/forum/)Are like so grody
It was like really embarrassing
She's like oh my god, like bag those toenails
I'm like sure...
She goes, uh, i don't know if i can handle this, y'know...
I was like really embarrassed...

Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Okay, fine
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a valley girl
And there is no cure
Okay, fine
Fer sure, fer sure
She's a valley girl
And there is no cure

Like my mother is like a total space cadet (valley girl)
She like makes me do the dishes and (valley girl)
Clean the cat box (valley girl)
I am sure
That's like gross (valley girl)
Barf out! (valley girl)
Oh my god (valley girl)

Hi!
Uh-huh... (valley girl)
My name?
My name is ondrya wolfson (valley girl)
Uh-huh
That's right, ondrya (valley girl)
Uh-huh...
I know
It's like... (valley girl)
I do not talk funny...
I'm sure (valley girl)
Whatsa matter with the way i talk? (valley girl)
I am a val, i know (valley girl)
But i live like in a really good part of encino so it's okay
(valley girl)
Uh-huh... (valley girl)
So like, i don't know (valley girl)
I'm like freaking out totally (valley girl)
Oh my god! (valley girl)

Hi - i have to go to the orthodontist (valley girl)
I'm getting my braces off, y'know (valley girl)
But i have to wear a retainer
That's going to be really like a total bummer
I'm freaking out
I'm sure
It's like those things that like stick in your mouth
They're so gross...
You like get saliva all over them
But like, i don't know, it's going to be cool, y'know
So you can see my smile
It'll be like really cool
Except my like my teeth are like too small
But no biggie...
It's so awesome
It's like tubular, y'know
Well, i'm not like really ugly or anything
It's just like
I don't know
You know me, i'm like into like the clean stuff
Like pac-man and like, i don't know
Like my mother like makes me do the dishes
It's like so gross...
Like all the stuff like sticks to the plates
And it's like, it's like somebody else's food, y'know
It's like grody...
Grody to the max
I'm sure
It's like really nauseating
Like barf out
Gag me with a spoon
Gross
I am sure
Totally...

----


Again you speak of something you know nothing about ... not one word of helicoptor in that song!

[btester1]

I woud not use NAV.... I've had my fair share of experience with viruses and anti-viruses as well.
If you are gonna sit there and recommend NAV, then you just lost any credibility you may have had in this area.
The reasons why are teh reasons you should know if you are as experinced as you say in th is area.
Budreaux

Well sorry, that's the common one I just got on my laptop.
Of course you can buy others.
-
I agree with you. It maybe is not the best. But voting machines don't
have any virus protection.
It's so easy to get to a database and manipulate it.

[Bandit5906]

Prove it! They are not open to any virus at any time!

[Twostep]

Watch out where the huskies go
and don't you eat that yellow snow

now THAT is good advice for Canadians

p.s. not suggesting yellow snow was involved in Building 7
Heheheheheheeeeeeee......:p That's funny, right there....:D

Do I need to remind everyone that nearly all of these websites purporting to have proof of a 9/11 conspiracy are financed directly, or indirectly, by the one of the richest individuals in the world and the biggest American-hater on the planet - billionaire George Soros.

You show me a website that's not driven by its hatred for the Bush administration, the United States as a whole or a burning desire to oust the Republican party, and I'll take a look at it. I'd be willing to bet a week's pay that if you did enough research, you'd find the far left behind every last one of these places.

[btester1]

Prove it! They are not open to any virus at any time!

Before I say that, which brand of voting machine were you using.
I'll do my best to answer.
But just the idea of electronic voting machines itself leaves no paper trail.

Virus on the memory card itself is one that I can think of.

If they are on a network, then I can attack easily.

[BigSwifty]

Well said Twostep !!!

[Budreaux]

According to your information:
-
-
* The New York's Empire State Building was not hit by a B-52 in 1945, but rather a B-25 Mitchell which is less than one-third the size of a B-52. (the first prototype B-52 would not fly for another seven years)
* The suggestion that $167 billion in gold was stored in vaults beneath the World Trade Center was removed as it exceeded the entire amount of U.S. gold reserves by approximately $67 billion. The "$230 million in precious metals" stored at the WTC complex were in fact recovered.
* Loose Change implies 757's only have Pratt & Whitney engines made of steel and titanium alloy, when in fact the engines used in Flight 77 are Rolls-Royce engines. Bollyn, an American Free Press reporter whom Loose Change references got the incorrect information from a factory in Indiana which makes engines for smaller aircraft; rather than the companies in Quebec and Derby that overhaul the 757 engines.
In response to some of these Korey Rowe, the producer of the "Second Edition", claimed in an interview, “We know there are errors in the documentary, and we’ve actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves.”
---------------------
Make me wonder if you saw the documentary Budreaux. Go and see it.
This is very little information that was corrected.

Yep, I watched the video twice, and the video is 1 hour and 29 minutes. You said it was 3 hours long.. did you watch it?

Those few corrections you referred to were not ocrrected in the latest release, unless there has been one released in teh very recent past.

The video was flawed and littered with mistakes... again, this just shows Dylan wasn't looking to validate his work, but was more interested in the reasons why 9/11 "could be" a conspiracey. But by not validating his work, he did the opposite, he opened it up to be totally revoked as a legitimate piece.

[btester1]

Heheheheheheeeeeeee......:p That's funny, right there....:D
Do I need to remind everyone that nearly all of these websites purporting to have proof of a 9/11 conspiracy are financed directly, or indirectly, by the one of the richest individuals in the world and the biggest American-hater on the planet - billionaire George Soros.
You show me a website that's not driven by its hatred for the Bush administration, the United States as a whole or a burning desire to oust the Republican party, and I'll take a look at it. I'd be willing to bet a week's pay that if you did enough research, you'd find the far left behind every last one of these places.
Twostep, you come off as an authority on this.
Let's hear the evidence to what you state.
You have already stated that you don't care much about this.

[Budreaux]

Before I say that, which brand of voting machine were you using.
I'll do my best to answer.
But just the idea of electronic voting machines itself leaves no paper trail.
Virus on the memory card itself is one that I can think of.
If they are on a network, then I can attack easily.
You are gonna makig me start spitting my drink out my nostils... you;ve just proven to me you ahve no idea what you are talki