C Band & Motor How Too.

[Crow 492]

Items required for C-band:

1. 6-8ft Prime Focus Dish
2. Eagle Aspen pro Band LNB or DMS International #BSC321-2 (Cband Only)
3. DMS International C/KU Band LNB #BSC621-2

Getting Started with FTA: Overview

What you absolutely need:
A clear view of the southern sky
A dish, 30 inches or wider
A Ku-band LNBF
A Free-to-air DVB receiver
To hit multiple satellites from one dish, add:
A dish-moving motor
Really helpful stuff for installation:
A compass with degree marks
A level
True RG6 coax cable
A 7/16-inch wrench
A portable TV

[Crow 492]

C-Band how to. C & P
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I recently set up a C-Band system up from scratch, so I thought I would share how I did it.

First off, since you will be more than likely hooking this up to your fta reciever or dvb card, there are certain things that will have to be taken into consideration. For instance, dish size. When you are looking for a dish, generally bigger is always better, but since you will only be watching digital channels with an fta reciever, dish size is not nearly as critical. Generally a 6' C-Band dish will give you a 50% signal on a digital channel. I would be all for having a 16' Paraclipse dish sitting in my back yard, but the nasty divorce thing that would more than likely result from that would not be worth the while. Also pay attention to the type of lnb that is on the dish. Old dishes had what was called an LNA, it works rather well, but is incompatible with fta because it converts the signal to a 70 mhz frequency that an fta reciever cannot pick up. The desirable one is what is called an LNB. These are found on all newer dishes and work perfectly with fta. An easy way to identify what a dish has, is the mesh on it. If it has holes that are bigger than a pencil lead in the mesh(more on the mesh later), typically it will have an LNA. Also, a feedhorn that has C and Ku bands is a definate bonus.

The next thing you will want to look for is an analog reciever. You will want a reciever for two reasons. 1) It will make aiming and tweaking your dish MUCH easier and 2) You will use it for moving the dish and changing polarity on the feedhorn. Recievers are cheap these days and can be had for about $20 online. I wouldn't worry about its features too much, but I would reccommend getting a remote with it to make dish moving easier. Also, make sure it is new enough that it will work with an LNB.

As far as acquiring a dish, these are rather easy to find just by driving through the country. People literally give away dishes away these days. When you locate a prospective dish, be sure to give it a thorough inspection. Check for warpage with a tape measure, make sure all measurements across the width of the dish are exactly equal. Also check the mesh on the dish to make sure the holes on the mesh are small enough that you cannot get a pencil lead through the holes. This is important because if the holes are too big, it will not reflect Ku band signals very well. If all you want is C-band, this kind of dish would be fine, but if you want Ku and DBS sats, small mesh is much more desirable. Check the mounting hardware and the actuator motor for rust and other damage. The actuator motor is another highly important to watch for. There are two or three types of actuators. They all operate in basically the same way, but the sensors that give the reciever feedback come in a few different varietys. Older ones use a 10 turn potentiometer to show its position. Newer actuators use a hall effect sensor that use pulses to sense position. This needs to match your reciever to properly move the dish.

On to the hookup:
You will need to get a couple of bags of concrete and set your pole up. Make sure it is perfectly level and tall enough so the bottom of the dish doesnt hit the ground at extreme east or west. Once the concrete is dry, mount your dish and set up a reciever and tv next to the dish. There will be four wires coming from the actuator arm and three from the polarotor. The actuator arm should have two thicker wires to power the motor itself and two sensor wires to show its position. The polarity on the sensor wires is not important, but The motor itseff gets DC power, so if the dish moves the wrong way when you move it, switch the two thick wires. The polarotor is a small servo motor that will change polaritys on the feedhorn. It will have 3 wires on it, a black one for ground, a red for 5-6V+, and a white wire for reading its position, it will typically be hooked to a terminal called pulse on the reciever. The dishes pole mount should give you some indication of how to initially point it. It won't be exact but will get you close enough to start tuning it. Once that is done, use the reciever to point the dish as close to straight south as you can. Once you are there slowly move east and west to find a signal with your reciever. Usually channel 9 will be active on most sats. Once you get a signal try to fine tune your dish east and west for the best signal. Once it as good as it going to get, pull up and down on the dish and see if the signal improves any. If it does, adjust the elevation on the elevation nut on the back of the dish. Once you have a good lock on the sat, move your dish to one of the sats that are low on the horizon. Repeat the same process. If the elevation is way off, try moving the dish around a little bit on the pole and try again.

Once you get a decent amount of sats locked in on your reciever, go ahead and tighten all of your pole mounts down and set your dish limits in your reciever. You will want to set them about 5 seconds of travel past the east and westmost sat that you can track in the sky. Once complete, you can bring the tv and reciever back inside and set it up where you want it. You will need a length of seven conductor cable to control everything without seperate wires running across the yard. I would reccommend getting seven conductor thermostat cable from any big hardware *****, its a little expensive but looks much better than 3 or 4 seperate cables running across the yard.

Tune in a sat on your analog reciever that lyngsat says also has digital feeds, and then unhook the coax to your analog reciever and plug it into your fta reciever. Go ahead and scan that sat and see what channels it finds, since most recievers cant change polarity on their own, you will have to scan again after changing polaritys on the reciever(moving channel up or down one). Once you get some channels on your fta reciever, fine tune the skew on your analog reciever for the best signal strength and watch tv.

[Crow 492]

Choosing A C-Band Dish
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Many people are now looking for used C band equipment after discovering the amount of DVB channels available on C band. During the big dish boom of the 1980's there were jillions of BUD manufacturers...some with quality products and some with trash. Below is a guideline on what to look for in a BUD, and what to look out for. A thanks goes to NO1WOLVERINE for encouragement to assemble this.

There has always been the discussion of mesh vs. glass vs. perforated. Mesh dishes are lighter and much easier on an actuator, but can be prone to structural damage if you live near a wooded area. Limbs and brush can be blown around by storms and make dents or poke holes in the mesh, not to mention possible hail damage. Some of the earlier mesh dishes had larger holes which cut down a bit on their efficiency, especially if you require KU reception. Don't listen to the hype about a mesh dish not being as prone to wind damage. After the wind gets past damaging stage (50+ mph) the dish cannot pass enough air through the mesh to keep the pressure behind the dish equal to the pressure in front, so it acts just like a solid dish, and the panels will blow out. Boom Boom, out go the lights....

Fiberglass solid dishes are more resistant to contact damage, and they are more true to the parabolic curve, as the fiberglass can be shaped to a much truer shape than mesh panels. The downside though is the fact that glass dishes are MUCH heavier, and after exposure to some seasons of weather the panels can warp in varying degrees. They are much harder on an actuator, and require a much more substantial mounting foundation. Absolutely never get a one piece fiberglass dish. The bottom line is...they WILL warp. I don't recall seeing a one piece that was more than 2 years old that wasn't warped. On a multiple piece dish (3 or more pie shaped pieces) you can tolerate a very small amount of warpage because you can do something about it.

Perf dishes carry some of the same traits as glass dishes, in that they are heavy. Some were stamped steel, while others were aluminum. Their signature is the perfectly round "perforations" in the reflector. Some were one piece and while not quite as easy to warp, when they DO warp there is nothing that can be done. They also aren’t as resistant to contact damage. A perf dish will hold its shape better over time than fiberglass.

The real gold nugget of dishes is the spun aluminum. Even though they are one piece they have a stout rolled edge and aren’t as prone to warp unless they were dropped. Their efficiency is superb. Anytime you have an opportunity to snag one of these treasures you better grab it.

I prefer medium or shallow dishes over deep dishes because of their efficiency. A deep dish is harder to illuminate. They were popular in the 1980's because the feedhorn was further down toward the center of the dish, and it helped to shield it from the terrestrial interference from Ma Bell.

There are two basic styles of feed supports used on BUDS…monopod and “milk stool”. The milk stool feed can be a 3 legged (tripod) or 4 legged (quad pod), while the monopod has a single arm coming out of the center of the dish. The milk stool feed is much more desirable than the monopod for several reasons. The feed must be perfectly centered for proper illumination, and as well, the feed opening needs to face dead center of the dish. It’s sometimes hard to bend or force a monopod to hold the feed in the proper position. A guy wire kit is essential for a monopod feed, not only to move the feed into the correct position, but to keep the feed from bouncing in the wind because of the weight of all the electronics on the end of the arm. Some monopod supports were substantial enough to prevent this, but are rare. The milk stool supports were usually machined to put the feed in the correct position in front of the dish. But if slight adjustments are needed, it’s easy to use some shims such as small washers to make the geometry correct. There is a third kind of feed design, called a “cassegrain” feed, which a second reflector is held in front of the dish, and the signal is reflected down a tube to the rear of the dish, where the feed and amplifier are located. This kind of feed structure is very rare.

In the early days of satellite TV, we weren’t interested in much of anything east of 70 degrees west. But today there are many satellites of interest beyond that boundary. Horizon to Horizon mounts are desirable to have, but are expensive. Polar mounts with linear actuators are the norm. Some people will use 2 different dishes, one for the western sky and one for the eastern sky, and mount the motor on opposite sides. There are 3 angles to adjust on a polar mount. Azimuth and elevation are very well known, but there is a third angle called “declination”, or “offset” angle. The offset where I live is 5.8 degrees, and will be different at different latitudes. Some mounts just had multiple holes on the top swivel bolt, so you had 3 offset choices…2.5, 5, and 7.5 degrees. You just picked the hole closest to your calculated offset angle. Better dishes had a fine adjustment of the offset angle, again located at the top swivel bolt.

I recommend a complete disassembly of a used dish before putting it on the pole, and here are some basic guidelines. If you can afford it, replace the hardware with stainless steel. Grease all moving parts of the mount. If you must repaint, use enamel, and never use a gloss or metallic based paint on the dish surface. Disassemble the reflector, and swap a set of opposite panels so that no joint that was previously mated will be mated again. On a 4 piece dish, swap 2 with 4, and on an 8 piece swap 2 with 6 and 4 with 8. This will help curb any rim warpage. Always reassemble the panels on a flat surface such as a paved driveway or parking lot. Put ALL reflector bolts in finger tight. Tighten the bolts in sequence, beginning with the rim bolts and work your way around in a spiral and finish with the centermost bolts. Avoid letting the dish stand on its rim, as this can distort the shape you worked so hard to maintain. You can use a hammer and block of wood to gently tap dings out of mesh panels. Know the manufacturers stated focal point of your dish, and measure to assure that the focal point is 1/8 - 1/4 inch inside of the throat of the feedhorn. Make sure the feedhorn is centered in the dish and pointing at the center plate.

I am going to voice an opinion here so just take this as an editorial comment. Avoid using a BUD for KU reception unless absolutely necessary. BUDs are just not designed for KU reception...they are a compromise. Even with tight mesh they are not efficient. Offset dishes work much better for KU reception, as they usually use a reflecting surface similar to screen door wire. The only exception to this is if you are using a spun aluminum dish such as a Birdview or DH. These are great performers for KU, as there is no loss of signal through any mesh holes.

I hope this will help people to choose wisely among the thousands of dishes available from people who desire to just get the thing out of their yard. There are some gems out there, as well as some trash. A little information will make your C band dish selection pay dividends in performance both now and in the future.

[Crow 492]

Find & Lower Your New Found BUD Dish The Easy Way! ** Safely **

I Have Recently Decided To Setup A "BUD" "Big Ugly Dish" Are Becomming More And More Popular Amoung Us FTA Testers! I Have Went Out The Past Several Months And Landed And Took Down Over A Dozen. Usally If You Drive Past Someones Home And See A Bud And Then Look And See A Pizza Dish And Go Up And Ask The Homeowner, They Will Most Likely Give It To You.

My Approach... Hi Im John "Q" Satellite Doode... I Was Driving By Your Home And Noticed That You Have A Old Big Dish In Your Back Yard, But I See You Also Have A Small Dish, Do You Use Your Big Dish Anymore? hmmmmmmm?

Customer - No We Have Switched To DI*** TV

John Q - Well Mamm / Sir Most Of Your Local Satellite Installers Charge Between $ 50.00 to $200.00 To Remove Your Dish When They Install Your New Dish For You, I Am Needing Parts For My Big Dish And If You Would Like I Will Remove Your Dish For Free, Cut Your Pole Down, And Haul Everthing Away For You! And Oh And By The Way, You Still Wouldnt Happen To Have Your Reciever Would You?

Be Nice And Polite And You Will Be Shocked At The Amount Of Dishes And Recievers That Can Be Had. After You Have Enough Dishes Of Your Own You Might Also Try This, If You Find A Local Scrap Scavenger Doode He Will Most Likely Do The Job For You For Takeing The Aluminum... And You Can Go Out With Him And Show Him The Parts That You Want Him To Save For You, Usally Actuator, Feedhorn, LNB, Reciever Etc. This Will Give You Extra Spare Parts Or Things To Trade Or Sell On FleeBay. Now To Take These Dishes Down Safely Without Damage And Without Heavy Equipment Like A Back Hoe Or Similar Gear Can Be Be A Pain. Most People Dont Like Heavy Equipment In Their Yard Anyway...

I Pondered This One Evening And Decided To Build A "Dish Crane" The Major Ingrediant In This Contraption Is A "Brake Winch" These Can Be Picked Up For Around $75.00 At Your Local Farm *****, And Will Lift And Hold 950 lbs Plenty For 99% Of Bud Dishes. This Alows You To Let Loose Of The Winch Handle Without The Winch Ratcheting Down And Free Falling The Dish. You Have To Crank The Handle To Raise Or Lower. The 3/16 Cable Rated At 1000 Lbs Costs About $25.00 For 40' This Will Allow You To Lift A Dish 20+ Feet In The Air On A Pole.
I Welded This Unit Up For Around $125.00 Total And It Makes Easy Work Getting The Dish To The Ground Safely, Without Wrecking The Dish Or Needed Parts. You Need To Match Up Your Hardware And Use Grade 8 Bolts Remember... A Few Extra Bucks In Sturdy Hardware Is Worth The Cost In Safety.

This Unit Has Two Modules The Crane Modual And The Winch Modual. They Are Both Mounted To 1/4 4" X 2" ID Channel Iron. There Are 1/2" Blk Pipe Sleeves Cut 2" That Help Support & Guide The Bolts Around The Pole. The Bolts Are 1/2 Dia X 6" Long Grade 8. The Back Supports Are 1/4" X 6" Angle Iron. A Wood Block Was Utilized As A Spacer In The Pictures As The Bolts Wound Up Being A Little To Long. I Will Make Spacers For Smaller Dia Poles Such As This 3 1/2 Dia Pole. The Winch Is Mounted On 3/8 Studs Thru The Channel Iron.

The Crane Arm Is Made Of 2" Black Pipe 16" Long And Is Bolted Thru Two 1/2 Mounting Tabs Welded To The Channel Iron. A 3/4" X 5" Grade 8 Bolt Supports The Main Crane Arm. Inside The 2" Dia Pipe Is A 1 1/2 Blk Pipe Free Floating That Can Swivel And Extends
In The Air Above The Mount Of The Dish. At The End Of This 1 1/2 Pipe Is A Support For A
3/16 Steel Cable Rated Pulley. This Pulley Is Mounted Half Way In The Center Of The Pipe To Allow The Cable To Be Run Thru The Crane Arm Around The Pulley To The Dish Mount. At The End Of The Cable Is A 1600 Lb Rated Hook With Locking Hasp. This Allows A Chain 3/8 4000 lb Chain W/ Link Hooks To Wrap Around The Dish Mount Without Fear Of The Chain Comming Loos From The Cable.

This Is A Two Man Operation, One Person On The Winch And One On The Dish. Lower The Dish Fully Down Bottom Edge Of Dish To The Pole.Once The Bolts Are Loosened On The Mount To The Pole, Your Helper Will Swivel The Dish Back And Forth While The Winch Operator Is Raising The Dish Do This Slowly. Once The Mount Is Just About Free From The Pipe Your Helper Will Need To Be Prepared As The Dish Will Want To Fall Forward. It Is Best To Prop A Long 2X4 Against The Pole Under The Dish At A Angle This Will Help Support The Dish From The Pole. Two Rubber Padded C Clamps Can Be Used On Each Side Of The Rim Of The Dish With A Nylon
Rope Running Between Them To The Person 15' In Front Of The Dish This Helper Will Guy The Dish And Apply Pressure Away From The Pole.

The Winch Operator Will Then Slowly Raise The Dish Untill Free From The Pole. The Winch Operator Then Lowers The Dish To The Ground. This Works Very Well, And Has Lowered 14 Dishes So Far. Cheers NO1