avr?

[muskie]

anyone know where to get an avr? just want to be extra safe, but can't find any.

[lunar1L]

If you mean AVR-X I can help. LOL

[JT]

I don't think they even make them anymore. I'm not 100% on this, but I think they even discontinued the Atmel8515 chip. (that's the chip on most of the AVR's) We're not talking AVR-X's, were talking AVR3's. These are the ones that got all those Canadians in trouble because they were leaking 121.5Mhz frequency and the cops could find them with airline emergency locaters if you didn't shield them is some way. I hate to say it, but you might want to try fleabay. You can always Google AVR3, but I don't think you'll find anything current. If you want to do PGM's new emu though, these are really nice to have and pretty cost effective. Got to have some puter skills and do some reading, but PGM's latest emu is awesome.

[James-x]

i agree with you JT couple of my buds stop useing them when thay heard this info it not worth it go rom 102 or FTA

[tjperry]

are these the long boards that the card go in??? If this is the avr that you are talking about I have about 10 of them in a plastic bag in my storeage box just in case they might one day come back to life..????

[JT]

just in case? lol
i've been using them for 8 months now...
and as for the detectable freQ,
ridiculous

It's not rediculous flashf. It's very real and I have seen the letters folks get served with. Basically says that your house is leaking a frequency that's illegal to use and you have 24 hours to correct the problem or they will come back and track down the source themselves. Shielding them is easy enough, but definately something that needs to be done.

[Bandit5906]

I have a few AVR's, but I seem to remember they were the AVR6! I'll check!

[JT]

AVR3, AVR6 and AVR9 are all basically the same thing. Depends on where you bought it I think.

[Bandit5906]

Yes! They are all the same. I never heard of the AVR9, BTW!

[muskie]

flashf, i have to agree with you. i don't think it's legal, it would be like searching without a warrent. maybe it did happen, but it wouldn't stand up in court. it reminds me of a grow up that got busted by scanning homes looking for excessive heat(from the lights), the guy was arrested, then later the judge ruled it was an illegal search. i'm not sure you can just go around scanning people's homes "in case" the are doing something illegal. but i could be wrong, it definatly wouldn't be the first time. i found three avr6's on ebay, but the price got up around 100 bucks, not sure i need them that bad.

[JT]

Oh, it will stand up in court. In North America, it's illegal to broadcast a signal at 121.5Mhz. That's the airline emergency beacon frequency. Search and rescue already have the equipment to do it. Those "black boxes" on the airplane beep at this frequency and nobody, I mean NOBOBY else is allowed to use that frequency. Try running a couple of these AVR's within a mile of the airport and see how long it takes to get that knock on the door.:D

Now, don't ask me how to explain that a strong 9Mhz signal is transformed into 121.5Mhz, but it can by the time it leaks out of the house. If we get Cancom to post in this thread he'll explain it all to you.

[JT]

I am serious flashf. It's the airline emergency beacon frequency. Anytime a plane with a black box goes down or even comes in for an emergency landing, the search and rescue teams are doing just eactly that; driving around looking for a signal on 121.5Mhz. Why do you find it so hard to believe me? I know this because I've been into this emu stuff for a very long time. This is one of the primary reasons folks switched to internal max/mel boards instead of these old style AVR3's. How long you been running emu flashf?

[cancom]

Hi

JT is exactly correct and we have been though this before. ALL Nagra emulators give off RF in this bandwidth....even my max&mels. If the device is sheilded by the can as with an internal this RF only travels a few feet. An external board can easily get you caught by a drive-by detection unit.

Proof:
An AVR emulating bud of mine lives a few miles from the airport in Kamloops, BC. He came home one day to find a letter stuffed in his front door. It was from Industry Canada informing him to cease and desist using his AVR as it was interfering with their radiocommunications. See attachment.

Thread: http://www.dssftp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38907

Document: http://www.dssftp.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4581&d=1105600312

He was only given a warning but later told if it happened again he would be charged and prosecuted. Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty....lol.

This one reason why I no longer make any externals. The others are loose connections, broken card socket pins, ugly cables out the front, breaks off easily, etc.

Hope this helps
cancom


I am serious flashf. It's the airline emergency beacon frequency. Anytime a plane with a black box goes down or even comes in for an emergency landing, the search and rescue teams are doing just eactly that; driving around looking for a signal on 121.5Mhz. Why do you find it so hard to believe me? I know this because I've been into this emu stuff for a very long time. This is one of the primary reasons folks switched to internal max/mel boards instead of these old style AVR3's. How long you been running emu flashf?

[naterater2000]

I am serious flashf. It's the airline emergency beacon frequency. Anytime a plane with a black box goes down or even comes in for an emergency landing, the search and rescue teams are doing just eactly that; driving around looking for a signal on 121.5Mhz. Why do you find it so hard to believe me? I know this because I've been into this emu stuff for a very long time. This is one of the primary reasons folks switched to internal max/mel boards instead of these old style AVR3's. How long you been running emu flashf?

This is very true, an aircraft (not all but most of them) their ELT(emergency locator transmitter) works on a frequency of 121.5 Mhz so that if an aircraft crashes it triggers the G-switch and activates the ELT.On some aircrafts when you first power them up their radio automatically goes to 121.5

[JT]

If your using an AVR at all and it's not shielded, it's leaking at least a certain amount of trackable frequency. Now, how far away you could pick it up depends on a lot of factors. The external AVR's put off a hell of a lot more RF than you think. I'd say you could pick it up at roughly 30-40 meters with no shielding what so ever. If you have metal bars on the windows (no pun, some homes in the city do have this to prevent burglary) that would help a lot in terms of isolating the leakage. How far and how strong the RF leakage can be picked up is highly variable. My only assertion is it does exist and can be picked up with the right equipment.....and it's equipment virtually any search and rescue team already has in their possession.

[JT]

Thanks for jumping in with those links Cancom.

[muskie]

this might be a stupid question, but could you use a magiccard the same way?

[mclush]

i live about 2 miles from the airport and plains fly over my house all the time i used an avr6 avr1 for years and not once i got a knock on the door telling me this

[cancom]

Hi mclush

When are they coming for you?

I see you may need some more convincing....
hxxp://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/en/sf05757e.html

2. What is causing the interference?

When manufacturers produce devices such as satellite television receivers, their devices must be tested to ensure that they comply with specific technical standards. The purpose of these standards is to prevent the devices from interfering with other radio systems. The manufacturers ensure compliance by enclosing their devices in specially shielded cases, which limit interfering radio signals from escaping, or leaking, out of the device.

There are a variety of non-standard attachments, generically known as AVR cards, that can be purchased for use with Bell ExpressVu satellite television receivers. These AVR cards are designed solely for the purpose of stealing satellite television programming. Combining them with a compliant satellite receiver defeats its shielding and permits radio signals to "escape" from the receiver, spread through the air, cause interference to nearby radio receivers and mask the detection of signals from emergency locator beacons.


I suppose this Government website is bogus as well?
Just because you haven't been hit by lightening while licking the flagpole doesn't guarantee you're not next!

[JT]

It's real. It sounds rediculous I know, but the old style AVR boards, with the atmel 8515 chip are locate'able by tracking the RF leakage from them. When you enclose the emu in a box, like with an internal max/mel, you also elimate almost all of the RF that comes off the board.

[Darkbob]

Hey JT... I've never had a problem with any sat equipment but after a bit of a rough landing on a dirt strip the ELT on my Cesna went off. I didn't know it was going - there was no audio warning or anything on it. So I get back to the airport and tie it down and go home. About 3am I get this call... get my ELT shut off within 30 minutes or they are going to hit me with a huge fine. Probably bluff but I hussled down and spent a few minutes trying to figure out exactly where my ELT was located. Turns out it's almost in the tail behind the back seat. They do watch for ELT signals all the time and when one shows up where it doesn't belong they do check it out.

You don't want to mess with those airport guys. This one time I had a passenger who gets airsick easily. She asks "do you have any barf bags?" "ahhh... think you used the last one up last time".

So I'm doing my pre-flight and don't notice what she's doing. I get this call on the radio asking if I have a passenger on the tarmac. WTF?!?! I look up and sure enough the door's open with my prop turning and everything! Glad she didn't get sliced up. I look around and can't see her. Then I look up and see her standing on the service platform outside the service loading door of an Air Canada jet beside us. She knocked on the do0r and believe it or not they opened up and loaned her some barf bags. Bet they don't get too many neighbors knocking on the door asking to borrow stuff.

By the time she gets back on the ground the RCMP are parked all around us. *sigh*

--DB

[JT]

I mis-stated in my earlier post. Enclosing the max/mel in the box does not eliminate the RF, it just keeps it enclosed so very little interferance outside the metal box. Same principle as a Farraday cage.

I'm a pilot too Darkbob. They put the ELT in the tail so it has maximum surviveablilty in the event of a crash. You must have put down pretty hard to set off the ELT. There is at least one guy/gal at every airport that monitors the radio. I doubt you would have been nailed with a huge fine after only 30 minutes, but you never know. If the ELT goes off in most circumstances it's cause for at least a small emergency. Search and rescue guys take this stuff really serious; as they should. Hopefully they'll be there when and if we ever need em'.

I just got a Piper Cub. It's tricked out a bit, but pretty basic. What you fly DB? Got a tri-pacer too, but I really much prefer the tail dragger. I'm a back seat driver if you give me a choice.

[Darkbob]

They put the ELT in the tail so it has maximum surviveablilty in the event of a crash

They should put the pilot back there!!! :)

I used to own a Cesna 150. Nope... not even a 152. A 150. Kinda like a flying VW Bug except smaller inside. But it was a lot of fun.

As for my hard landing... yes. Very very hard. Actually quite serious but hey... any landing you can walk away from, right?

I haven't been up in about 10 years now. I'll probably get back to it one of these days.

--DB

[JT]

It's expensive to be a pilot now days. It's in my blood though. Grandpa, uncle, father... all of us fly. Not saying you'd want to go up with any of us, but we are all still here despite a few close calls. Just got the single prop license here, but it's a lot of fun. I like flying from the back seat in my cub. Probably a lot like your Cessna 150 was. Basic as can be, but dependable as it gets. Almost nothing to fail. You can really feel what the plane is doing from the back seat. Freaks a lot of folks out though because they think you can't see what's going on. When the snow melts I'll be out mowing the runway.:D Another thing a lot of folks can't get used to. A guy can put a small plane down just about anywhere, even in the mountains. I love my cub. It's got a lot of utility in it.