football question

[spanga]

buddy and i bs'ing during sbowl and the situation arose (in theory).....i'll make it into a story.............score just tied at 30-30 by last second touchdown (clock ran out during play)...so, first question-> does the scoring team get to kick the convert to win?......yes?......assuming that, if the defenders block the attempt (not crossbar). recover the ball and run it in, what is the final score?...36-30 or 32-30? (two points being the most points available to the offense).....if 36-30 does the last scoring team get to go for the convert, if say they need it to get the wild card?.....what about in the cfl?....depending on the answer, things could get bizzare if they keep blocking each other's converts and running them in for "td's"

[crosshair]

always pass on third down
have dirt on the coach
don't hang out wif' da lineman
do....do the cheerleaders
always where a cup
for sure if you ignore above rule and hang wif'da; lineman!!:D
payton won bout damn time
next for him would have been more commercials

[spanga]

good advise i'm sure....i'll keep waiting for someone to answer my question.....thanx anyways...lol

[crosshair]

I looked at your question and thought about it...........
don't know for sure.....

[fubr]

a returned conversion attempt is worth 6 points.
since the time ran out and the game decided there will be no need for the defending scoring team to attempt another pat so GAME OVER.This is High school and college rules :)
Must have been some deep snow.

[skinerd]

The conversion would be allowed, even with no time remaining.

from wikipedia:

According to former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit:

Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful try-for-point is dead if kicked.

[fubr]

so muffed snap or a fumble would be a live ball and if it was blocked after the kick it is a dead ball and game over?

[spanga]

live ball if intercepted on a two point try?.......unlikely scenario, but if 6pts for retuned muffed convert and convert allowed, that would make 6pts if that convert attempt muffed and returned as well......all this after clock has run out......like i said, we were just bsing around

[JT]

so muffed snap or a fumble would be a live ball and if it was blocked after the kick it is a dead ball and game over?

Can't believe I missed this question. I love football!:)

Since you can't tie in a playoff game, you'd go to overtime if it was blocked after the attempted PAT (point after touchdown). If it was a muffed snap, the ball is still live and could be recovered and ran back by the opposing team for a touchdown. Another weird aside to this question, if kicking a field goal, and the ball falls short of the goal posts, it can be caught by the opposing team and ran back. In that case, the ball is still live after it is kicked.

[PCB2]

I do believe it's only 2 points. You can't score 12 points off the same possesion. Possesion meaning touchdown and conversion. You would only be allowed a touchdown after blocking a field goal and returning it.

PCB2

[major1]

You are 100% correct PCB

[orra]

skinerd is correct...post #6

in the cfl the ball would live and the score would be 36-30

[major1]

In the NFL, if a touchdown is scored before time runs out, the extra point is attempted. if it is blocked fumbled whatever--GAME OVER!! If time left on the clock the defense can return the fumble for a score of two (2) points. In an overtime game NO extra point is attempted because game is over when the TD was scored.

[spanga]

major 1?....time runs out while the touchdown play is in progress and that ties the score...is there an allowed convert attempt?....igeneral consensus is yes...kick is blocked and ball does not hit the ground, but is caught and run in by a) kicking team b) defending team...does either score count ?.......hmmmm?....in the middle of a game, i was of the opinion that there cannot be a tally of points by either team of more than was available to the offensive team at the time of the snap....so that's two points on any convert attempt....i could probably google into the answer but this is more fun........field goals are a totally different matter......i love those scenarios in the cfl where they kick it back and forth trying to get or save that last point.......the cfl really is more of a kicking game....you actually get one point for missing a field goal (if the kick is long enough).....cfl can also drop kick from anywhere anytime and score 3 pts thru the uprights....nfl?.....ball can also be punted from anywhere anytime thru opposing end zone for 1 point.......there's been some thrillers over the years

[skinerd]

..time runs out while the touchdown play is in progress and that ties the score...is there an allowed convert attempt?....igeneral consensus is yes...kick is blocked and ball does not hit the ground, but is caught and run in by a) kicking team b) defending team...does either score count ?......

from NFL.com:
Digest of Rules
Try

1. After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety.

2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.



What I believe:
The try is attempt uses no time and is allowed even with no time left on game clock. (except after an overtime score, as ANY score in overtime ends the game)
Once the ball is kicked, if it goes through, one point,...............blocked or missed, it's no good and ball dead.
If the snap is muffed, kick faked, or no kick attempt, it can be ran, or passed, in for 2. If during a 2 point attempt, the ball is fumbled on the field the offence can recover it in the end zone for 1.

[PCB2]

If the defense can't score on a blocked extra point, why do they try and pick up the ball and run with it and try to score? Unless; they don't know the rule like most of us...

[skinerd]

If the defense can't score on a blocked extra point, why do they try and pick up the ball and run with it and try to score? Unless; they don't know the rule like most of us...

They try to recover to prevent the offense from recovering, the defense has never scored on a conversion, cause they can't. You would think in the history of the NFL, if it was possible for the defense to score on the attempt, it would have been done at least once.

[major1]

skinerd--I guess you are correct. I was pretty sure a rule had been added allowing the defense to score 2 points on a botched extra point try but I guess I was wrong. I must have had a "senior" moment.

[PCB2]

Shows you how much I know about football....Great topic though. Does the Arena Football League have the same rule? Everytime you see a score it's 60 something to 50 something or some outragious score. With those kind of scores, you would think they had some extra scoring options.

PCB2

[spanga]

well now that we know the answer looks like it's a bar bet winner eh?......anyone want to weigh in on cfl

[orra]

post #12

[skinerd]

From wilipedia:

extra point

In American and Canadian football, the extra point, point after touchdown, or PAT is the act of lining up to kick, as in a field goal, immediately following a touchdown. If the kick goes through the uprights, the team gets an additional point for their touchdown, bringing their total for that score to 7.

If more points are needed or desired, a two-point conversion may be attempted instead of the extra point kick.

In the National Football League and the Canadian Football League, the play is over once the attempt fails. In many other levels of football, including American college football, the play continues until the ball is otherwise dead. This allows the defense to recover the ball and return it to the opponent's end zone for two points.

In the NFL, the scrimmage for point after touchdown takes place from the two-yard line. In college football, it is from the three-yard line. In the CFL it is from the five-yard line.

[skinerd]

also from wikipedia, which contradicts some the above...

During conversions, the ball is considered live in the Canadian Football League, American collegiate football, some high school associations, and NFL Europe. As such, this allows the defensive team to gain two points on an interception or fumble return. Conversely, in the National Football League, other levels of American football, and amateur Canadian football, defensive teams cannot score during a try attempt.

[spanga]

not as clear cut a question as i first thought....you can imagine how animated we got with a few drinks in us when the topic arose during super bowl....i'm almost sorry i brought it up....lol.....i figure defender grab the ball and run it in....let the refs sort it out....lmao

[orra]

from the clf. ca site..sounds like the defensive team can run all they want hence six points???? I need a beer...

THE GAME >> Rule Book >> Rule 5: Kicking
Article 2: Recovery of Blocked Kick
If the ball is blocked, without going out of bounds, it may legally be recovered by a player of either team. If, however, the ball is recovered by a player of the kicking team the continuing play shall be considered as any other play from scrimmage.

[spanga]

looks like offense max's out at two points and the defense can score six?....on the other hand it could interpreted with "any other play from scrimmage" to mean 6 points available to offense since the block is considered a turn of possesion?....i'm not sure if what orra's refering to is a convert (PAT) attempt...looks like it applies to any other kick, which in the cfl can be from anywhere on the field at any time

[orra]

SECTION 3: BLOCKED KICK
Article 1: Definition

A blocked kick is a kick from scrimmage...(I see no specs on a convert)

therefore anyone can get six points????

[PCB2]

I was watching the Chicago Rush over the weekend when I saw the 2 point sinario. Kansas City tried a 2 point conversion and the Rush intercepted the ball and ran it back for 2 points. First time I've ever seen that happen.

[cojones]

Arena football rules SCORE SCORE AND SCORE SOME MORE! Oh did i say SCORE!http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l161/blitzedbob/RUSH.jpg