View Full Version : Machine gun MECM
It seems as if there will be a new MECM every second day. As soon as coders fix one there is a new one blacking things out. It is without doubt that the new tactic is to annoy people into submission. Coders will not be able to keep up with the comples fixes these MECMs require. If they keep this pressure up this shit will get old very fast.
mili
Dragster
12-10-2007, 07:01 AM
It seems as if there will be a new MECM every second day. As soon as coders fix one there is a new one blacking things out. It is without doubt that the new tactic is to annoy people into submission. Coders will not be able to keep up with the comples fixes these MECMs require. If they keep this pressure up this shit will get old very fast.
miliJust like when dave hashed the piss out of the hu's,every 2-3 days,and then the lights went out for good.
mannybeef
12-10-2007, 07:10 AM
but somehow fab5 makes it look easy.
Warcraft
12-10-2007, 07:14 AM
the old Hu and Dishnt are two different animals, back in the Huey days at the end. there was no place left to hide lol
Warcraft
It is anything but easy to fix these ECMs. You need to be ready to spend 5-6 hours every second day logging dissassembling, figuring testing etc... If they can keep this up this will be the death of emulation. Yes it includes your precious fucking Viewsats as well. The question is can they keep this up? They have the history of finding a new toy then forgeting about it after a few days. Lets hope this is one of those times.
mili
DrSagan
12-10-2007, 08:12 AM
http://www.dssftp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72503 post 42 :D
DonaldTheGiver
12-10-2007, 08:28 AM
i dont know that i would make such informational posts about whats going on, dont forget dave and charlie both come looking on places like this to see how they are doining, other wise they wouldnt know how to fuck us over. just my 2 cents
DrSagan
12-10-2007, 08:36 AM
i dont know that i would make such informational posts about whats going on, dont forget dave and charlie both come looking on places like this to see how they are doining, other wise they wouldnt know how to fuck us over. just my 2 cents
You mean they didn't know what they sent down to the cards before I told them??? :eek:
:D :D :D
that right there is funny, I don't care who ya are :)
DonaldTheGiver
12-10-2007, 08:44 AM
oh im sure they know what was sent down to the cards, its easy enough for them to download our fixes and see whats where and what to do, there coders are just as smart as all of ours if not smarter, but heres the thing, when everyone goes into specific details on how something is working it just makes it that much easier for them to fuck us over, but i see you are to arrogant to see the point i am making and would rather be another smart ass prick in the forums like 70% of the rest of the people on here and everywhere else, your one of those assholes that someone makes a typo and insted of helping have to make a post saying, "you mean ?????" when you knew exactly what they meant.
eric keri
12-10-2007, 09:17 AM
oh im sure they know what was sent down to the cards, its easy enough for them to download our fixes and see whats where and what to do, there coders are just as smart as all of ours if not smarter, but heres the thing, when everyone goes into specific details on how something is working it just makes it that much easier for them to fuck us over, but i see you are to arrogant to see the point i am making and would rather be another smart ass prick in the forums like 70% of the rest of the people on here and everywhere else, your one of those assholes that someone makes a typo and insted of helping have to make a post saying, "you mean ?????" when you knew exactly what they meant.
-------------AGREED-----------------
Mezlo
12-10-2007, 09:24 AM
donaldthegiver must know something I don't. I have always found DrSagan's post most inforrmative and usually way above my head but I can tell he knows what he is talking about. Do a search on his name for posts and some light reading then come back and restate your rant. BTW the providers are the lead dog we are always playing catch up.
DrDagan I will apoligize for this 30 post wonders comments even though I don't know him. You deserve way more respect.
DrSagan
12-10-2007, 09:32 AM
Sheesh, 3 months ago people are asking why, so, I try to explain as best I can. Now, mili leaves himself wide open for me to poke him in the ribs, and I'm the asshole? No more ribs for you mili. :D
p.s. Thanks Mezlo, no worries :)
DrSagan
12-10-2007, 09:39 AM
I haven't said or done anything that would have sped nor slowed the providers plans, it seems that would be obvious but I guess not. My bet is they are right on schedule. ;)
916, I think I remember mili getting banned and had to re-up :D :D
Canadian Ice
12-10-2007, 09:52 AM
Well i hope you understand DrSagan, that there are some people like this in every forum. Some peeps just get confused when the post has more than three lines. I understand that everything you said in that post is what the providers are already doing. its not like b*v is doing something and shuuush..we don't want d**k to see that..they work together people..funny..everyone wants the coders to stay but when one makes a very intelligent post , you slam him..GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE
man, eric, i am apalled at ur responce, people bend over backwards to help u an ur selling us down the river. makes no sense man. i'm no coder, but don't u think they have a child or two to take care of? they get nothing but bragging rights to open code, they owe u nothing, they do it because u like it, not demand it. shame on u donald the giver, (a true oxymoron), and eric, i just don't know what to think. u should think it over and apologize. DUH1
johnnyjam
12-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Thanks again Dr.Sagan for keeping us in the loop! (...some pun intended...)
...clockspeed...
satnutzz
12-10-2007, 10:50 AM
man, eric, i am apalled at ur responce, people bend over backwards to help u an ur selling us down the river. makes no sense man. i'm no coder, but don't u think they have a child or two to take care of? they get nothing but bragging rights to open code, they owe u nothing, they do it because u like it, not demand it. shame on u donald the giver, (a true oxymoron), and eric, i just don't know what to think. u should think it over and apologize. DUH1
..........AGREED...................
eric keri
12-10-2007, 12:00 PM
man, eric, i am apalled at ur responce, people bend over backwards to help u an ur selling us down the river. makes no sense man. i'm no coder, but don't u think they have a child or two to take care of? they get nothing but bragging rights to open code, they owe u nothing, they do it because u like it, not demand it. shame on u donald the giver, (a true oxymoron), and eric, i just don't know what to think. u should think it over and apologize. DUH1
Shit I knew I was going to hear shit for this .....I was agreeing with him saying.....(((((oh im sure they know what was sent down to the cards, its easy enough for them to download our fixes and see whats where and what to do, there coders are just as smart as all of ours if not smarter, but heres the thing, when everyone goes into specific details on how something is working it just makes it that much easier for them to fuck us over,))))))
NOT WITH ......but i see you are to arrogant to see the point i am making and would rather be another smart ass prick in the forums like 70% of the rest of the people on here and everywhere else, your one of those assholes that someone makes a typo and insted of helping have to make a post saying, "you mean ?????" when you knew exactly what they meant.
SO BACK THE FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!! JOKING!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU ALL...
But there are really a couple of dozen ppl here that only care about the community the rest are for when there shit goes down and needs a quick fix! AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?
skinerd
12-10-2007, 12:40 PM
i dont know that i would make such informational posts about whats going on, dont forget dave and charlie both come looking on places like this to see how they are doining, other wise they wouldnt know how to fuck us over. just my 2 cents
As the good Dr said, they know exactly what they sent. Sure they come on here to see the effects of the ECM, and see what, if any fixes, are posted. The Dr's explanation of their tactics doesn't help or harm them in any way, but does serve to show people what the coders are up against.
IS this a kindergarten?
We need Mili to add a romper room forum so some of you guys stay out of real threads and shoutbox.
It is embarrassing to go to another forum and see a post asking if anybody saw the dumbshit in mili's shoutbox
It seems as if there will be a new MECM every second day. As soon as coders fix one there is a new one blacking things out. It is without doubt that the new tactic is to annoy people into submission. Coders will not be able to keep up with the comples fixes these MECMs require. If they keep this pressure up this shit will get old very fast.
mili
It's going to get old fast? I was thinking it's already getting pretty old. Time to envy those guys that had the sense to hang on to their roms, because that's all that's gonna be reliable for the forseeable future.
joewilly
12-10-2007, 04:54 PM
Never thought i'd miss the C-BAND days.I think it went down a couple a times in like 8 years.LOL.
Lets not forget we are all in this together, they are on one side we on the other.
Regardless of your reasons for testing(free tv, the technology, sticking it to an ex employer. etc..) we should stick together, and support each other where ever we can. I want us to win, not chucky! And every day that even at least one of us is up we have a chance!
If you think Charlie needs to come here and read DrSagan's post to figure out how to best exploit this ECM you are an idiot. If you think they can't send down an MECM that will be impossible to emulate around you are an even bigger idiot. If you give shit to DrSagan for posting the exact way how Charlie will exploit this update then you are an idiot at best and possibly Charlie yourself being angry for people to be able to look into your hands. If you think coders will be able to keep up with all these code changes in a timely manner you are the king of the idiots.
If you think end users will put up with all this shit meaning TV for a day then a 3 days break then you maybe right but then they are the idiots for doing so. The only question that is relevant is how many of these MECMs do they have prewritten and will they stop sending them within a few weeks or not. IF they hired some competent people to write these indefinately or if they send down one that will not be crackable then game over. Before you talk shit that I am giving them ideas or that I am anti FTA let me remind you that they are lots smarter when it comes to coding MEMCs than me and that half the products I sell is also going to die. The only thing I am certain now is that a full swap of the 102, 103 and S0 cards is within a year.
mili
FUTURE951
12-10-2007, 07:29 PM
those of you that have a sub to your local sat or cable provider and got fta will not be that bad off. Whenever your fta is working you can hook it up watch some ppv some porn what not if you want a somewhat more stable solution then go with a rom 102 or even an atmega usb 256. The ones that will be affected most by this will be the freetevers that havent paid paying for cable that come in forums begging for bins, fixes,ect. because they are not bright enough to realize that fta rom 102 is not reliable enough to not have some sort of sub. either deal with the fact that you have to pull out your rabbit ears or it would be a smart idea to get a basic sub. No one is saying throw your fta's away maybe there will be a more stable solution or what the heck you could even go ahead and use the fta for what is was intended free to air channels. Theres iks for fta but how long you thing that will last if it where to hit main stream :D
spanky macdouga
12-10-2007, 07:35 PM
The only thing I am certain now is that a full swap of the 102, 103 and S0 cards is within a year.
mili
do you know something that the rest of us don't?
foamee
12-10-2007, 07:38 PM
I come to this site to get information. I appreciate that Dr. Sagan know what's going on and can explain it in fairly easy language. Part of the hobby is understanding how things work.
craneguy
12-10-2007, 07:39 PM
I definatly agree with both of you milli and future.. although milli you come off as a bit harsh, i agree 100%. even as i found out sub is not fool proof either. one of my 2 subbs went down on bev saturday.. had to switch ird's around in order to watch the new england game. For people to think chuck or bev is getting there info off these sites is retarded. they know more from thier customer service lines when things affect subs or not, and which config.
She will be a bumppy ride.. time will tell
Yes. Every time they send down an MECM they are revelaing more and more about these cards. Soon there will be nothing secret about them and they must go. Logic says they have committed to the swap and they are buying time with these MECMs. Much like Dave did. The big question is will the 206 and above ROMs be hack proof or not?
mili
panchocuerdas
12-10-2007, 08:08 PM
new Armulator fix that supose to handle this MECM's is out??
It's pretty clear that the emu coders, that includes Enigma, all atmegas, armulator, all FTA without AUX cards, CEMU, ST19XL without AUX card, and probably other that I'm forgetting, are going to have a constant battle to release updates. As mili rightly points out, this will get old real fast.
I believe the Enigma coder along with 128/256 atmega have already given up. Others too I'm sure have either given up or are about to.
Card looping is probably going to come next. This will cut down on the plastic pirates, but some will remain. There has been clues to some "secret" code already on the blockerless cards that will be turned on at some point.
so what is left?
I think this will separate the testers from the free-tv-ers. This speculation is based on my belief that you will have to code your own fixes to be able to get video. There just won't be any viable commercial options to do it for money unless something changes. A public 206 hack could prolong the game some. ;)
Some smart guy may figure a way to code around this latest round of ROM102 countermeasures, but to date, nothing has come to light publicly. Time will tell on that one.
just my 2 cents worth, which is a pretty accurate valuation. ;)
kev jr
12-10-2007, 09:22 PM
One would wonder if this has to do with maybe a buy out from at&t ..Sure looks like they got a new set of peeps doing ecms and trying to curtail till the swap occurs once again..
Time Will Tell once again
Dont post much but my 2 cents
Kev
Seaboard posted that premise here a couple of months ago. He said he was sure of it. I am not convinced. :)
actionjackson27
12-10-2007, 11:26 PM
Seaboard posted that premise here a couple of months ago. He said he was sure of it. I am not convinced. :)
(A giant hush falls over the crowd)
Anyone? Anything?
:P I think the best adage at this point is.."time will tell"
realest
12-10-2007, 11:43 PM
Well I got a question for DrSagan,
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
demik
12-11-2007, 12:20 AM
Based on the explaination DrSagan gave on his other post, b*v is rotating ecms and they are unpredictable until initiated -- I sure would like to get said fix from VS but I seriously doubt they will be able to code a dynamic fix until b*v releases multiple ecms and a pattern is seen.
What is your source? :)
(I am prepared for a long game of cat and mouse as mili may be right this time)
Bushwackers
12-11-2007, 12:34 AM
Sheesh, 3 months ago people are asking why, so, I try to explain as best I can. Now, mili leaves himself wide open for me to poke him in the ribs, and I'm the asshole? No more ribs for you mili. :D
p.s. Thanks Mezlo, no worries :)
Hey Bud,
Just blow it off, the shit some people say without known who is who or giving a rats a$$ just puke it out. You have done a great job and helped many out as well as myself a few times hehehe.
So with that, be happy and thanks for everything you have done past, present and future. Your a great asset to the community and always welcome were I hang.
Bushwackers
Well I got a question for DrSagan,
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
Please. Don't embarass yourself with questions like these.
mili
Crow 492
12-11-2007, 12:48 AM
Never thought i'd miss the C-BAND days.I think it went down a couple a times in like 8 years.LOL.
I know a I have my Ku LNB on standby haha, As soon as dish starts going nuts I will be switching the eye and when that happens I will start up againg with the free to air channel list and all the stuff you need to know if you all whant to play with real free to air.:)
Crow at the next neighborhood lemming party I am gonna ask for a few of the real fta units peopel are not using anymore.
Crow 492
12-11-2007, 12:58 AM
Crow at the next neighborhood lemming party I am gonna ask for a few of the real fta units peopel are not using anymore.
:(:(:(:(:(I dont now if I whant to cry or laught LOL I will always have my Free to air unit buff as I played with it before all this dish/bell spoon feed stuff haha.
If mili still whants me here I will be here to support the real free to air testers out there and the new ones.
gallo55
12-11-2007, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by realest
Well I got a question for DrSagan,
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
ROFL Yup they must have hired the phoenx team lol
brjak
12-11-2007, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by realest
Well I got a question for DrSagan,
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
ROFL Yup they must have hired the phoenx team lol
Why is everyone basing this dude, If I had a dollar for everytime I came here to hear thats the end of FTA..well I would be a rich dude....
As much as comments may seem ridiculous the ones for the last few years are were just as ridicules.
We should have a poll on this site because I would bet the amount of people here that can code is under 10.
spanky macdouga
12-11-2007, 03:11 AM
Why is everyone basing this dude, If I had a dollar for everytime I came here to hear thats the end of FTA..well I would be a rich dude....
As much as comments may seem ridiculous the ones for the last few years are were just as ridicules.
We should have a poll on this site because I would bet the amount of people here that can code is under 10.
Agreed 100%
Twostep
12-11-2007, 03:28 AM
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
I'll fill in until Doc decides to post, and here's what I have to say about it. You're correct.
Everyone in all of testing, who works on fixes, is working on a reliable one that will last a long time. I don't know of anyone who's working on a lousy one that won't last 3 days. Question is, does such a thing exist? Can the providers circumvent it?
Yes and yes.:)
DrSagan
12-11-2007, 04:26 AM
Well I got a question for DrSagan,
VS/SV team is working on a reliable fix that will last for a very long time (till they do a card swap). What do you have to say about this?
As Two Step said, I'm sure everyone is working on long term fixes. I mentioned in another thread here about being able to emulate all the timers as well as map routines and timing... not an easy task.
Let me ask you this...how do you debug something you cannot see? When the providers use an unknown map call, how do you know what map registers are used with said unknown map call until they show us? Tracing through the maprom to learn this is EXTREMELY time consuming, much easier to just wait and react. :)
I never said throw your boxes away. Three months ago, I replied showing you a small amount of power they have with this latest rev update. Most of what I said has come true(big deal). Once the providers have shown all their hands, of course the coders will have all the answers to counter them. As mili said, they are going to use everything in their power to shut down fta and I'm sure they're having fun pushing the button and switching algo's as quickly as fixes come out. How many freetver's will just throw the box in the closet and just sub to keep the wife happy? ;)
It's all a game... a game we cannot win, we can only strive to play as long as possible with as few chips thrown away. ;)
Bushwackers
12-11-2007, 04:48 AM
At this time I think this thread needs one of them exploding lemmings LOL
For you all that don’t get that, Google it….
ROFLMAO
Bushwackers
omare
12-11-2007, 05:07 AM
It's all a game... a game we cannot win, we can only strive to play as long as possible with as few chips thrown away. ;)
exactly ... it's always a game we won't win in the end. they keep us playing until they get bored with us. Just like Dave did.
Mili, as long as the other half of your products still be in store, I'll be a happy customer.
:D
watchnit
12-11-2007, 05:28 AM
So call me stupid... thats OK... I am a rather clever guy - read lots of stuff... and have been coding (not TV) for years... and complicated shit at that...
two questions
1) Why can the MAP calls not be read out completely... and a emulated ROM 102/103 created in its entire..
2) Why can a working sub box (even Dave) not be cloned ?
:(:(:(:(:(I dont now if I whant to cry or laught LOL I will always have my Free to air unit buff as I played with it before all this dish/bell spoon feed stuff haha.
If mili still whants me here I will be here to support the real free to air testers out there and the new ones.dude you are the dssftp/FTA LOL
you made dem bones...
Crow 492
12-11-2007, 06:02 AM
dude you are the dssftp/FTA LOL
you made dem bones...
hahahaLOL
you all rock here:D:);)
N-Zero
12-11-2007, 07:20 AM
First off, I'd like to say that it's good to see comments from experienced testers like DrSagan that explain what's happening with these current ECMs. I also think, however, that it's still too early for anyone to predict the "the death of FTA" because it's a multion-million dollar industry that depends on software fixes to keep hardware sales going. It may be a while until there's a stable(r) fix that's released to the masses, but short of a card swap, I can't see this as being the end of FTA just yet.
DrSagan
12-11-2007, 07:39 AM
I would bet fta is here till cams can't be gotten into. Secure the card and it's all over but the crying. ;) Older fta boxes with slow processors may not keep up or are longer to get fixes because this requires more efficient coding. Coolsat had it right over a year ago using an aux card, but, they sure took a brutal public beating for it though. ;)
So call me stupid... thats OK... I am a rather clever guy - read lots of stuff... and have been coding (not TV) for years... and complicated shit at that...
two questions
1) Why can the MAP calls not be read out completely... and a emulated ROM 102/103 created in its entire..
2) Why can a working sub box (even Dave) not be cloned ?
1- The map calls we know about are resolved at least well enough to emulate them. It's impossible to anticipate a map call that has never been implemented though.
2- You can clone receivers so long as you have a jtag'able box.
djrazor
12-11-2007, 07:01 PM
So call me stupid... thats OK... I am a rather clever guy - read lots of stuff... and have been coding (not TV) for years... and complicated shit at that...
two questions
1) Why can the MAP calls not be read out completely... and a emulated ROM 102/103 created in its entire..
2) Why can a working sub box (even Dave) not be cloned ?
1)because much of the card is encrypted and they use one way hashes to determine outcomes that the cards already know about, it's things we can't get into the card to see and thus the access cards work as they were designed to
2) DTV IRD's don't have typical JTAG ports like Echostar IRD's, they're completely different hardware
what a beautifil day.
i just unlocked my 3rd rev 10b card:D
and outside it's raining;)
hobbyer
12-11-2007, 08:07 PM
That's great! I have one 102 and someday I may have to try my luck at opening it. Right now I play around with ST19xl(cardless) and my DVB card. It starting to snow here, so I am hunkered down playing with mt "toys". What a hobby, gives us something to do when it's messy out.
gallo55
12-12-2007, 01:50 AM
could someone tell me what a map call or a map 22 is. I have done tons of reading and have never seen an answer to this.
Basic low level english would be good.
Tasey
12-12-2007, 08:10 AM
Sheesh, 3 months ago people are asking why, so, I try to explain as best I can. Now, mili leaves himself wide open for me to poke him in the ribs, and I'm the asshole? No more ribs for you mili. :D596F75205369636B205065727665727421:p
N-Zero
12-14-2007, 09:10 AM
ViewSat is one of the first FTA companies to release new non-IKS files for BEV. Let's see how it holds up in the coming hours or days!
New BEV MECM in progress. I guess that answers your question. Internationals dropping, the rest will shortly follow.
mili
Crow 492
12-15-2007, 12:42 AM
New BEV MECM in progress. I guess that answers your question. Internationals dropping, the rest will shortly follow.
mili
Mili its Dish that is going nut's Bev is still OK at this time on FTA with the new bin releasess.
But yes there is one on standby on Bev side too.
New DN ECM Dec.14/07 New DN ECM in effect. all internationals are confirmed down.
ruciz
12-15-2007, 01:57 AM
To think all the time we thought they given up.. the odd ecm with a super fast fix. The whole time they were secrectly coding an arsenal of maps and MECM's to thwart everything.
This game is far from over, but its unlikely anything from here on out will be reliable without continuous updates. Its like autoroll, but 20x more complex.
ruciz
12-15-2007, 02:01 AM
could someone tell me what a map call or a map 22 is. I have done tons of reading and have never seen an answer to this.
Basic low level english would be good.
Mathematic A.... Processor.
The provider writes cryptographic algorithms, and gives them a number.. this case 22. THeres also 3B, 57, 4E, 4D... list goes on and on...
In laymens terms its a super fast calculator hardwired into the ROM102 cards that can compute the answer to cryptographic math problems at incredible speeds - faster than any language like assembly, C++, basic, etc. can.
So theres a problem, the MAP function is called, MAP22, which computes the answer to the problem, so the card can continue to decode the information so you get video.
Simple enough?
smilingjack
12-15-2007, 02:04 AM
Just get a card,
I post the fix for card two days ago,
Just add the 106 key, which came out today
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