Herding sheep (and goats) to the slaughter

[mili]

Frequent key rolls forcing people to use autoroll blockers
+
Emulators including your friendly FTAs rendered useless by the latest MECM
=
Lots of ROM102 card ready to be taken out by a massive looping ECM.

This is not fear mongering merely a logical deduction based on facts. Get autoroll public blockers off your cards and take the time to manually update your cards witht the latest keys or set up an emulator setup with an AUX-ed ROm102 card. I am not sure if commercial blockers are a better idea to have but they are a smaller target than the public ones so they may be spared. I think the time is ripe for a long overdue loop attack.

mili

[old school]

Hypothetical question...suppose they were to send out an ecm that looped all paying subscribers...that would pretty much be Dish networks demise, right? So they have to be very careful at what they are doing. Aren't they taking a huge risk sending out these ecm's? I'm very naive when it comes to understanding what they do to take out cards, so pardon the dumb question.

[The Lizard King]

Got a Viewsat? Befriend a racoon!
TMML!

TLK :cool:

[The Lizard King]

Hypothetical question...suppose they were to send out an ecm that looped all paying subscribers...that would pretty much be Dish networks demise, right? So they have to be very careful at what they are doing. Aren't they taking a huge risk sending out these ecm's? I'm very naive when it comes to understanding what they do to take out cards, so pardon the dumb question.
I'm sure that this is very true. It seems reasonable to assume that Charlie "tests" his ECMs with in-house modded E* IRDs and FTA units so as to not mess up the paying customer.

TLK :cool:

[mtmt1us]

Viewsat still has a lot of channels including 4 PPV movies, TMCW & TMCXW, soft porn,all locals,1/2 cable type channels etc...

With all these my plastic is still as safe as ever in the vault. Let's see what tomorrow brings, Good luck all. I would pull that plastic before going to bed though.

[The Lizard King]

Hey Lizard, who are those guys in you sig...I don't follow college football, only watch the pro's. Someone is getting "Jacked Up"!.
Your PM quota is exceeded, so I'll answer you here.

The hitter: USC's MLB Rey Maualuga
The hittee: fUCLA's QB Pat Cowan

TLK :cool:

[Hobie]

I'm almost at the point of giving up on my FTA unit. Is the USBatmeg 256 affected by this latest ECM too?

I'm seriously considering switching to something else and this atmeg256 sounds pretty good. Possibly Romcode.

[MIKEHAWKISLARGE]

I'm almost at the point of giving up on my FTA unit. Is the USBatmeg 256 affected by this latest ECM too?

I'm seriously considering switching to something else and this atmeg256 sounds pretty good. Possibly Romcode.

Find a rom102/103 and private blocker or a public non-auto roll. or use rom card in an st19 auxed setup

[mr. ringo]

charlie ought to be scared to do any more ecms on those receivers that
are made in mexico. if it like everthine else that comes from there if
you push it to hard it takes a nap or it goes out and protest or in just
dies in a big pile of junk like the rest of the stuff that comes from mexico
if that don,t work it goes on welfare. see

[pecker88]

Frequent key rolls forcing people to use autoroll blockers
+
Emulators including your friendly FTAs rendered useless by the latest MECM
=
Lots of ROM102 card ready to be taken out by a massive looping ECM.

This is not fear mongering merely a logical deduction based on facts. Get autoroll public blockers off your cards and take the time to manually update your cards witht the latest keys or set up an emulator setup with an AUX-ed ROm102 card. I am not sure if commercial blockers are a better idea to have but they are a smaller target than the public ones so they may be spared. I think the time is ripe for a long overdue loop attack.

mili

Totaly agreed.
Would love to see dicknet try to loop my floppy disk though!!! ST19 is running smooth as ever with aux...like usual.

[spanga]

i know that thread is a few rows down but even a good old loc 000001 would be a nice shot and a bit of a sneak attack for those unjtagables....that would shiver a few timbers

[pecker88]

i know that thread is a few rows down but even a good old loc 000001 would be a nice shot and a bit of a sneak attack for those unjtagables....that would shiver a few timbers

only unjtagables are 9xx, 811, 311...IMHO not worth going after.
All of my buddies 522's, and 322's have jtag cables out the back of them!!! Very easy to flash a new image to.

[greenie-monster]

What (or which) blocker(s) that are public, but do not autoroll, are recommended????

[budme]

my fta is not useless im still getting most of my channels locals and hbo and ppv in the 5900s coolsat 7000pvr rocks:cool:

[BcBoy]

Lots of ROM102 card ready to be taken out by a massive looping ECM.

Get autoroll public blockers off your cards and take the time to manually update your cards witht the latest keys . mili So if you were to put a blocker on your card what would it be??

Thanks for your time...:D:D:D

[Ohms]

I know that the AUX solution in ST19XL is widely believed to be loop proof. Is this really the case? We have seen that the COR file takes updates, but I have not seen the card accept any changes. Does that mean it won't accept changes?

Here is what I am worried about. ST19XL has to pass some things to the card for processing that are not just map calls. When these were just map calls, it seems fine as the AUX card was just acting as a math co processor. However this dynamic code may be another story. I'm not so concerned with the timers, but when the card has to process code that is unknown before it can get the keys, who is to say that the next ECM won't have the unknown code loop the card?

Just food for thought.

[ndcsucks]

Love the site Milli... and even like to read your rants these days... they make me chuckle…

If ya keep up this negative attitude about “the sky is falling”... you will eventually be right, I guess... Once they swap the ROM 102 / 03 out!!! But even then… who knows???

When the day comes that the chit hits the fan, I suppose you will say" I told you so" even though it was your 100th prediction.

Come on!!!

Have some faith in these coders... they have pulled off miracles already.. I am sure they still have more up their sleeves.

:-)

[rg6a]

Frequent key rolls forcing people to use autoroll blockers
+
Emulators including your friendly FTAs rendered useless by the latest MECM
=
Lots of ROM102 card ready to be taken out by a massive looping ECM.

This is not fear mongering merely a logical deduction based on facts. Get autoroll public blockers off your cards and take the time to manually update your cards witht the latest keys or set up an emulator setup with an AUX-ed ROm102 card. I am not sure if commercial blockers are a better idea to have but they are a smaller target than the public ones so they may be spared. I think the time is ripe for a long overdue loop attack.

mili

I agree and said that earlier.........time of the year. The infamous Hu Black Sunday ocurred during the Academy Awards (which my Wife just Had To Watch......Grrrrrr) and tomorrow night is a UFC major PPV.........DUH??

As for the Private stuff, is anyone stupid enough to think that Kudelski doesn't have it in their Lab and hasn't disasembled it?

I don't mean to sound like a Mili Commercial but it wouldn't it be prudent to use a plastic substitute or aux'd emu testing device(s)?

Check out Mili's 'market priced' 102s and think about it before taking the chance!

PS I have neither of the above options at this time and watching Cable &
my D*ve sub but within a week or so will decide on an alternate.
(the cam is worth 2.5X the above)

[rg6a]

I know that the AUX solution in ST19XL is widely believed to be loop proof. Is this really the case? We have seen that the COR file takes updates, but I have not seen the card accept any changes. Does that mean it won't accept changes?

Here is what I am worried about. ST19XL has to pass some things to the card for processing that are not just map calls. When these were just map calls, it seems fine as the AUX card was just acting as a math co processor. However this dynamic code may be another story. I'm not so concerned with the timers, but when the card has to process code that is unknown before it can get the keys, who is to say that the next ECM won't have the unknown code loop the card?

Just food for thought.

That's an interesting question and I also was thinking about the 'what if' scenario. I'm not using emu but the thought is enticing. Does perky's aux totally protect the cam? I've read msgs here that one guy couldn't Read the card after auxing and some other member said he can read the card...like what's going on here???

I don't have the print of the card socket handy, and don't really know how the STxx software operates or what the Write Voltage to the CAM is.

Either cut a trace or put a Zener Diode in.........Skinerd....whadya think?????

[flight]

Love the site Milli... and even like to read your rants these days... they make me chuckle…

If ya keep up this negative attitude about “the sky is falling”... you will eventually be right, I guess... Once they swap the ROM 102 / 03 out!!! But even then… who knows???

When the day comes that the chit hits the fan, I suppose you will say" I told you so" even though it was your 100th prediction.

Come on!!!

Have some faith in these coders... they have pulled off miracles already.. I am sure they still have more up their sleeves.

:-)




lololol:rolleyes:

[skinerd]

Whatever happens.....happens....either test and watch TV or sub and watch TV, choice is yours.

[cojones]

if it weren't for his almighty dollar we all wouldn't be here :D

[gergarin]

Love the site Milli... and even like to read your rants these days... they make me chuckle…

If ya keep up this negative attitude about “the sky is falling”... you will eventually be right, I guess... Once they swap the ROM 102 / 03 out!!! But even then… who knows???

When the day comes that the chit hits the fan, I suppose you will say" I told you so" even though it was your 100th prediction.

Come on!!!

Have some faith in these coders... they have pulled off miracles already.. I am sure they still have more up their sleeves.

:-)I used to be a card freak to Milli and I remember whenBev Charlie and Dave were going after Rom 10 cards and emulators and Atmega cards. Then along came FTA and they started to consentrate on them. If they nock out FTA the rest of us are next. And then we will be gone also. Remember when Nagra 2 showed up, no solid testing for a year or so wasn't it. The sky is falling the end is nigh

Give it a rest, there will be a fix if not get a sub.

[HCCAfan]

Remember when Nagra 2 showed up, no solid testing for a year or so wasn't it.

i think private plastic was up about 2 months after n1 shutdown, dont remember that far back. I was impatient and got an fta ird since they were up before most privy. Then 3 weeks later, privy was up and sold the pansat ;)

[Morphius]

If it wasn't for all the damn FTAs we wouldn't be having this discussion most likely.

On the ST19xl comment about it protecting the card I would think it should be safe. it would be a nifty trick to write something OTP or otherwise to it without it coming straight through a 'write to card' . You can always use a Blocker with script on ST19xl, and just manually update your keys if your worried about it.

All in all i'm not complaining cause I am quite sick of all the FTA crap and how much time and space it uses. It's not even "testing" in my mind, just 100% FREE TV.

For those of us who adore plastic, we will find our way and I think we will also be hesitant now to provide dumps in the future to FTA coders knowing what a mess it makes for everyone. Especially on newer cams that get opened.......

This seems like a great time also for Dave to 'leak' his little fix and perhaps get some major hardware sales happenin and some new subs as well......

Look around tommorow for a .bn10 for your old ROM10 that will be able to get events, it will be named UFC.Dec29.bn10 and be on a forum near you. At least we can try and spare some 102's if tommorow night is the night for Superloops ......

Peeeeeece Yáll .....

:cool:

[fubr]

I hope it is not tomorrow night.

Charlie version of a black Sunday on a Saturday :)
they could call it Saturday Night Speacil

[fubr]

Whatever happens.....happens....either test and watch TV or sub and watch TV, choice is yours.break it down like that and it seems so simple.
such a peacful way of looking at it.

[Morphius]

Here is a tidbit that only a few know about to protect a CAM in a looping situation.

When the 12/12 ECM (loop) happened there were a few CAMs that were fortunate and didn't get looped. If you own a PVR/DVR and you run about 20-30 minutes behind 'live' mode if an ECM happens your PVR will freeze screen. If you pull your cam ASAP and DO NOT re-insert it it will most likely be saved. You then just need to unlock it and write a fresh Rev103 bin to it. If it says its locked and still has a valid ATR, it can be fixed, compared to NO fix for the No ATR ones.

If history repeats itself, this could be a helpful factor in saving you a CAM.

If 102's get hit the market price will be outta this world as well. Currently they are above $200 US, so figure it out if a 102 loop happens.

Just a FYI and hope everyone tests safely .....

L8trz.

:cool:

[mannybeef]

if a major loop happens the price will be over 1000 for a unlocked card

think about how many people bought a fta for 700 or 800 that doesnt work but a day and a half, but can record 300 hours of tv . not trying to be mean.but really.

it will be crazy

or maybe just maybe there is full emulation right around the corner.

who knows.

[hairyballs520]

Mr.ringo charlie should be at the end of his rope with these receivers that are made in mexico charlie ought to be scared to do any more ecms on those receivers that
are made in mexico. if it like everthine else that comes from there if
you push it to hard it takes a nap or it goes out and protest or in just
dies in a big pile of junk like the rest of the stuff that comes from mexico
if that don,t work it goes on welfare. see

What a f*cking idiot what the F8ck does this have to do with the thread what a racist coment !!

[rg6a]

I'm sure that this is very true. It seems reasonable to assume that Charlie "tests" his ECMs with in-house modded E* IRDs and FTA units so as to not mess up the paying customer.

TLK :cool:

Said Providers don't do Shit.


Kudelski is responsible for maintening SI.

[rg6a]

So if you were to put a blocker on your card what would it be??

Thanks for your time...:D:D:D


Do you understand English?

He is telling you to get your CAM the Fuck out of the IRD!!

So much for Mili being called a money grubber by Assholes. Warnings are good, some times shit doesn't happen but it's a good thing to be aware of what may.

Enough said.


PS he sell$ plastic and alternatives, yet warns US and this Site is FREE..
.........what the fuck more does anyone want?

[day_tona2]

The word of the day is FUCK...

[wileys_farm]

Well I got to say, The latest events have really shown the free tvr's from the true testers. "Pull your cards?" LOL, Have faith in your work, be a tester, leave it in if you got balls. The few proud testers out there, I bet their cards remain in the IRD. I cant remember the last time mine was out.

[Tasey]

I cant remember the last time mine was out.Poster boy for Drugs will damage your brain.:D

[dishnewguy]

Am I a true tester if I write a few things to a card then let it stream update and have tv for a year? or just a free tveer?

[DB]

Well I got to say, The latest events have really shown the free tvr's from the true testers. "Pull your cards?" LOL, Have faith in your work, be a tester, leave it in if you got balls. The few proud testers out there, I bet their cards remain in the IRD. I cant remember the last time mine was out.How many of them can really have faith in THERE work. Most people can't write there own blockers. Most use public blockers patched with the latest emm$9F update. If I was running a public blocker I sure as hell would pull it too. Me I will leave it in.

[The Lizard King]

How many of them can really have faith in THERE work.
THERE -- a noun
THEIR -- a pronoun

HTH. :D

TLK :cool:

[macrex]

Hey Hairy nuts, that wasn't very nice.

[DB]

THERE -- a noun
THEIR -- a pronoun

HTH. :D

TLK :cool:You must be one of the people who can't write your own blocker .

[cojones]

for sure DB:D

[The Lizard King]

You must be one of the people who can't write your own blocker .
Interesting conclusion. Illogical, but interesting, nonetheless.

FYI... writing a blocker is not nuclear physics. Anyone who reads a lot in this hobby is capable eventually of writing his/her own blocker.

TLK :cool:

[fubr]

spell it however you want DB, just keep on doing what it is you do.

Lizzard, go ahead and let this go man,,,,,you dont want to be fucking with this guy ok?

[The Lizard King]

Lizzard, go ahead and lt this go man,,,,,you dont want to be fucking with this guy ok?
I'm an equal-opportunity fucker! :D

I was just breaking his balls over a grammatical error only because he was so EMPHATIC with the word, "THERE"! I'm sure that Dog Breath is an important contributor to this hobby, and I didn't mean to twist his undies in a bunch, if that is, in fact, what happened.

TLK :cool:

[fubr]

I doubt you got to him...he is a level headed guy...it is more me feeling like a guard dog for people like him..sometimes I get carried away. It is not often I get to be the big dog and use my muscle :)

anyway you handled it well, I was kinda hoping we would get in a fight over it LOL....OK I am busting your balls now

[macrex]

Sorry about that DB, my mistake , I was referring to a post by Hairy Balls???? who was putting down the Mexican people. I am far from being Mexican but I didn't like what he said.

[mopar611]

Interesting conclusion. Illogical, but interesting, nonetheless.

FYI... writing a blocker is not nuclear physics. Anyone who reads a lot in this hobby is capable eventually of writing his/her own blocker.

TLK :cool:

Physics no, a game, maybe..

I agree.. Almost anyone with any kind of willingness to learn could
perhaps learn to write a so called blocker.. ( If we think of the term
blocker as the same)

So I take it you have written your own blocker by your comment above?

I would be more than happy to discuss yours or any others out there
if you like...

Maybe you can tell me a thing or two?? I am always interested in
others ideas..

Mopar

[hairyballs520]

Macrex Sorry about that DB, my mistake , I was referring to a post by Hairy Balls???? who was putting down the Mexican people. I am far from being Mexican but I didn't like what he said. Dude u got to b freakin kidding me !!!!!! go back and read again , then when ur done go n read it again ! where in my post am i making fun of Mexicans???

[ssleslito]

i dont believe in racism i simply believe specific nationalities have specific characterisitics that bother specific people for specific reasons and specifying your dislike for those specific characteristics of specific nationalities is cool with me especially if those spceficities are true and take it from a %50 latin himself latins are professional gossipers that are full of envy and trickery,i live on a latin island w/latin spanish family i simply chose to take the spanish shit over the american shit and get a suntan while im at it at least they dont throw your shit out on the icy cold street if you're late on rent and if they do it here you can sleep on the beach and you won't freeze to death. as for mexicans been there done that pee brained humans for sure!! when your my age and done what ive done people talking about your nationality is actually pretty funny unless you've got a complex and cant handle the truth!!!

[HCCAfan]

Dude u got to b freakin kidding me !!!!!! go back and read again , then when ur done go n read it again ! where in my post am i making fun of Mexicans???

dont trip, it was mr ringo. obviously the guy who is sorta pissed is just trying to stir up shit since he cant even direct his anger at the right person/comment........

[fubr]

WOW!

I think we members here at mili's are the worlds worst at staying on topic LOL

I guess it is ok in a thread like this that is a general conversation but my god we all do it in every thread :):)

just an observation and I am as guilty as the next guy, I guess we need to try to keep things orderly?

[ssleslito]

yeah it went from a court date in canada to mexicans and wow what a subject deviation that was my bad fub's i wont jump on anymore runaway trains anymore but as i said i couldnt resist i had to get a piece of that one !!

[garysam]

WOW!

I think we members here at mili's are the worlds worst at staying on topic LOL

I guess it is ok in a thread like this that is a general conversation but my god we all do it in every thread :):)

just an observation and I am as guilty as the next guy, I guess we need to try to keep things orderly?
Not the worst, my friend....I was on a site yesterday that went from USB Atmegas to belts for snowblowers in less than 10 posts. :confused:

[ssleslito]

i feel sooo much better my friend thanks for the consolation:D ,i find it halarious too:) hehehehehehehe!! happy new years bud :) :) :) !!!

[whitestuff]

this may be a great oppurtunity to debut my new sig to lighten the mood... tah-dah

[HCCAfan]

WOW!

I think we members here at mili's are the worlds worst at staying on topic LOL

I guess it is ok in a thread like this that is a general conversation but my god we all do it in every thread :):)

just an observation and I am as guilty as the next guy, I guess we need to try to keep things orderly?

you got something against the community as a whole having a.d.d.? jeeeze, but yeah, you see that game the other night...... lol :)

[spanky macdouga]

this may be a great oppurtunity to debut my new sig to lighten the mood... tah-dah

I LOVE your avatar!

[mtmt1us]

this may be a great oppurtunity to debut my new sig to lighten the mood... tah-dah

What were we talking about ????????

Oh yeah breasts, that's right.

[martymartin]

Those look like my wife's ??????Wonder where she's been???/

[kromedge]

Getting back on topic, here is a c&p from another forum:



a warning about rom 102 blockers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel it's appropriate at this point in time to post a warning to anyone
using Rom 102 'blockers' that are currently autorolling.

As others have mentioned, D*sh/B*v are now rolling keys using what are
called 'morphing EMM$B1 packets'. These are essentially executable code
packets that modify the payload inside of them by executing code. If the
code inside the EMM$B1 doesn't execute, then the payload that follows
(EMM$42, the actual 'keychange' EMM) will have incorrect data and thus
install the wrong keys.

Common blockers such as c0d3sp4c3 and Penga's use an EMM$B1 handling routine
that is now outdated and only partially effective. The method that these
blockers use to deal with $B1's is an exact 'scan-and-match' approach:
wherein the only $B1's allowed through are ones that are known to be safe
(and already stored on the card, in order to identify and allow a match when
it comes down).

The reason this method is flawed is because every new keychange EMM now
contains different morphing code in the EMM$B1's. In other words, it will do
no good to scan for a 'known safe' EMM$B1, since the new $B1 has different
code which doesn't match the database. Thus, the EMM$B1 (and the subsequent
EMM$42 keychange EMM's) are thrown out, and the keys don't update. This of
course results in a '005' nag on the IRD.

Now, what I have mentioned so far is not a problem. Once the EMM$B1 comes
down, if you want to add the new one into the 'safe' database on the card,
that's not an issue... the card will then autoroll until a new EMM$B1 comes
down that has different code in it, and thus the process repeats itself.
Again, this is a perfectly acceptable practice... no harm can come from
adding a known safe EMM$B1 (like the ones currently in the stream) to your
card. It is, however, in my opinion a futile waste of time... since once the
new EMM$B1 comes down, it's better to simply grab the keys and install them
in the image until such time that a new EMM$B1 comes down and changes the
keys again. It doesn't make much sense to add the current EMM$B1 to the
'safelist', since they will never use the same code in the EMM$B1 again to
change to new keys... it will always be different code, so that's why I feel
that simply changing the keys manually is the best option for now.

So far, all is fine and good... all of the above stuff I have mentioned is
not a risk; it's just to inform.

The real problem lies with these 'autoroll' images that I'm seeing pop up,
which do actually autoroll when the new EMM$B1's come down -- and yet, claim
to have a blocker installed and activated. What these "blockers" are
actually doing is allowing ANY EMM$B1 to execute!! This is NOT a good thing,
and I will explain why.

If all EMM$B1's are allowed through, currently (and I really stress
currently) the only thing that will happen is your card will autoroll with
each new EMM$B1.

However...

They can then also send down an EMM$B1 that has malicious intent... a good
option (one of many) for the providers would be to do a simple hash of the
bugtable, and if it doesn't match, jump to $00:AA76. This would cause 'FF'
to be written to $3008, rendering the card unable to decrypt anything. This
would be the exact same approach they used with $C008 marked Rom 10's --
except unlike the Rom 10/11/101 which had a possible exploit to fix the
marked cards, there would be no fix for the Rom 102's.

My point is, if you're currently running a Rom 102 that is autorolling,
you'd better make sure it has a damn good blocker on it... and if you're
using a Rom 102 that's autorolling that you programmed with a public script,
then I'd suggest yanking it as fast as possible and getting a real blocker
on it.

They really are setting us up for a good loop with these latest EMM$B1's....
and undoubtedly, someone -- perhaps even someone at B*v/D*sh -- will post a
'Rom 102 autoroll blocker' that's actually nothing more than a blockerless
image. I can just see people flocking to use that image (because it will
indeed autoroll), only to have an EMM$B1 come down that ends up creating a
whole bunch of $250 frost scrapers.

My suggestion is: play it safe with your Rom 102's, and change the keys
manually for now, until someone comes out with a new generation blocker that
can safely handle the EMM$B1's without passing them blindly. This isn't a
very large inconvenience, given that they're only changing the keys every 48
hours... no doubt they will speed this up in the future, possibly to 24, 12,
or even 3 hours... but currently, reprogramming your Rom 102 every 48 hours
is a small price to pay when it comes to the possibility of having your card
looped, in which case you'd never be able to program it again.

Hope this helps someone out...

[Morphius]

I heard that using Xcel 3.0 and a ROM 2 and coding it with tiers to obtain a few specific channels can obtain you anything you wish to watch.

Anyone heard this or done it yet ?

:D