DD-WRT router firmware and slinger performance questions [Archive]

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06-25-2009, 04:11 PM

For those of you who do not know what DD-WRT firmware is, you should google it. Basically, its linux based firmware for your router to replace the stock firmware. If the reviews are accurate, we should all be running this firmware unless we've got a $600 Cisco router or something similar. Not all routers are supported, but at least 80 of the most popular models are. Most linksys (which are the routers the software was originally designed for), d-link, etc. routers are supported.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to dive in and put this firmware on my router. My particular router will only support the micro version of the software, but it still sounds like it would be worth it to convert to the non stock firmware.

How many of you guys out there with a slinger are running the DD-WRT firmware on your routers? Is anyone even running this firmware? How would you rate the slinger and firmware performance compared to stock firmware?

cdrabb

06-25-2009, 04:39 PM

There is also a firmware that is called Tomato that is very similar that I have installed on my router that you might want to check out, I have never tried DD-WRT but from what I have read Tomato is easier to use.

06-25-2009, 04:43 PM

There is another one called Tornado (I think), but the recommendation to try the DD-WRT firmware came from a VERY knowledgeable friend that works in the networking field.

How's your Tomato firmware treating you? You running a slinger with it? The basic idea here is to boost router performance so we don't all need to buy a d-link 604, but can all get the performance we want out of our slingers. If there are other options to the DD-WRT firmware, then lets discuss those too. If some alternative firmware proves to be a better performer, maybe we can even get a router set up how to put together that's not so router specific.

cdrabb

06-25-2009, 04:54 PM

I am waiting for my Slinger to set it up and try it. I was hoping to use the router as a Wireless client and pick up internet from some where else so it couldn't be traced back to me. That is the great thing about putting different firmware on these routers. According on what I have read even though you can turn the settings of the router way up they only are stable to a certain point. Something elseyou should check out is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35xsFonuqv0"]hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35xsFonuqv0 this might not be the right link but it will point you in the right direction.

ruciz

06-25-2009, 05:08 PM

made my routers much more stable (wrt54G and WRT310N) Both work great, better than stock firmware for sure. 54g with micro and 310n with generic std. the difference in them in negligible unless you want advanced features.

It also adds site surveys feature, great if you have an external antenna connection and a cantenna and some local wifi networks you want to 'share'. you can also adjust power levels, setup vpns, a few wifi points, and much much more.

I never ventured to tomato, no support for 310n and I got rid of the 54g as I fried a port and wanted gigabit. Kinda wish I haven't. those are still expensive. external antenna routers that support site survey are hard to find these days.

06-25-2009, 05:13 PM

Which version of the wrt54g did you flash? 8.2 by any chance? Thanks for the info ruciz. That's the kind of info I'm hoping will be shared in this thread.

Were you already running dd-wrt firmware when you hooked up your slinger? In your opinion, do you think the dd-wrt firmware would make any difference when it comes to a slingers performance?

I think I should probably move this thread to a different forum since it's not directly a slinger discussion. Even mods post in the wrong forum sometimes!

ruciz

06-25-2009, 05:25 PM

mine was a V6.
I did my own via the soft unlock/bootloader hack method where you have to telnet into it.. When I went to update it all hell broke loose and I couldn't log back into it - locked myself out. At that point I soldered in the jtag and used my USBjtag to flash it in about 25 seconds, much more preferred method for myself. Either method worked fine though, I think V7 was the last flashable release.

The 4MB ram really held the unit back, likely wouldn't have crashed - but at full 12MB/s (100Mbit) over 5 systems + wifi was too much for it to handle. huge difference with the 310N and the amount of ram it has, I think it was up for 87 days when I last rebooted it, and about 55 or 60 before that.. I can fill my nas, and have every computer transferring to each other, and have both PSPs, NDS's on 2 different wifi setups and my 360 streaming media without a hiccup. The MacBook loves the WirelessN, gets around 15MB/s (130Mbps) range is good too, pick it up about 500-1000 feet away from my house, through the trees. thats on the nominal 70mw tx power too.

ruciz

06-25-2009, 05:34 PM

I don't have a slinger, and likely never will have a slinger so I can't comment on DD-WRT performance with it.

DD-WRT improved my routers stability, and collisions, and a lot of other issues the standard firmware had. I'd suggest it to ANYONE with a router capable of utilizing the firmware to upgrade to it. It defiantly won't make the situation worse, DMZ is available under NAT/QoS tab. You can also setup a totally different network too. Im pretty sure if you get into the advanced features you can use the wifi from another wifi network to feed your wifi devices, and a hardwired connection to feed your ethernet ports.. or select which ethernet ports belong to which network and which wifi devices belong to which network, and bridge all kinds of things. Its ridiculous.

06-25-2009, 05:40 PM

I repeatedly read that even though this software will let you run at something like 450mW (holy cow!), that it would burn op the router. The recommendation was for 70mW. Stock routers run about 35-40mW according to what I've read. This is due to a number of factors that relate to effective distance for your wireless connection.

I have a v8.2 linksys wrt54G. There is a micro version of DD-WRT for it. I didn't know it when I bought it, but I got the crappy new version of the wrt54G unwittingly. Pretty sure I only have 2mb to work with.

So you have jtagged a router just like an IRD. Nice. :)

NYSE

06-25-2009, 10:37 PM

I'll chime in here, even though I do not own a slinger, and know almost nothing about how they work, other than my previous posts about the extraordinarily long ping times.

JT is correct in comparing the DD software to a $600 cisco router. The functionality of the linksys is improved 100 fold with this firmware. I'll go into a couple of details.

1. Flashing: There is a procedure for flashing to the new software. FOLLOW IT!. Never do it via a wireless connection. Read the release notes and forum posts first. Flashing is easy. It only takes a couple of minutes, but if it goes wrong, it's a pain in the ass to recover. I know. Been there, done that. It's important to start from a clean default configuration which can be done with the 30/30/30 procedure. Read about that 1st.
2. After flashing: Once you flash and reboot the box, you will be in completely unfamiliar territory. No longer will you see the old Linksys web configuration page. It's gone, and the new management interface is nothing like it, except that it is web based. My first advice is, if you don't know what some setting does, leave it at default. When you make changes, only do them one at a time whenever possible. This way, you will know what went wrong, and how to back it out easily.
3. Transmit Power: The higher you crank it, the hotter the final output transistors will run. Heat is not good for electronics. Also, when you crank it all the way up, you introduce distortion in the signal, and actually degrade your performance. If you follow this simple rule, you should be GTG. ONLY set the transmit power to a level high enough to establish a reliable connection. No higher.
4. Mode: There are several modes, and they are a bit confusing. Client mode, Client bridged, bridged, non-bridged... WTH? You will need to read up on what they do and how they are configured. Then pick the one that fits your needs, and try to get it working. If you fail, and you may, post in the support forums for help. There are 1000s of DD-WRT users out there and you can get some great help.

Closing: You would have to be a seasoned network engineer to know what all the stuff in the management interface does. I'm not one, and there are things I don't have any idea what they do. What is important to know, is that this is very well thought out firmware that is tested and working for situations that the linksys people would have never imagined. If you install it, and it freaks you out with all the options, don't be surprised. That is a common response, and you can always just flash it back with the manufacturer's firmware and all will be returned to as it was before you started.

I have done dozens of the WRT54Gx boxes, and have never been sorry. YMMV though. I would not ask for help here on this. Go to the forums that support this firmware. They have never failed to help me.

NYSE

06-25-2009, 10:43 PM

I'll add one more thing. If your knowledge and experience is such that you struggle with the stock firmware, then DD-WRT is not for you.
Try the tomato software which is based on the same kernel. I have not tried it myself, but I read it is much simpler to manage. Kind of a dumbed down version of DD-WRT for those that do not need all the advanced features. I would guess that 80% or more of you would fall into that category.

06-25-2009, 11:36 PM

I looked into the tomato firmware. Man does it look nice! One of the tech's at my ISP recommended it too. Unfortunately, there is no support for my router and tomato. There is DD-WRT firmware however.

I've got all my ducks in a row now and am ready to try this update. Everyone I've spoken to said if you can, to upgrade to this firmware. I'm going to read through all the info I have and make sure I'm ready to go one more time and then probably jump in and see if I can swim. ;) Actually, the flashing part doesn't appear to be much different than flashing a loader. It's going to be all those new options and interface that will confuse me. I've got my how to go back to stock directions and .bin image ready to go too if I decide I don't like DD-WRT.

Thanks for all your help guys and please keep this thread going if you think of anything else to add to the discussion. I will report about any effects on the slinger performance when I get bold enough to take the leap. (I only have this one router, so if I brick it I'm offline for a while, that's the only reason I'm hesitant)

rg6a

06-25-2009, 11:45 PM

There are various Forums for the LinkSys WRT54xx routers with regards to flashing and enhancing. Frankly. haven't found a need to 'eff around with the standard firmware.

If it aint broke, why bother to fix it?
The speed is limited to the chipset inside, stability.............well make sure you download the factory stuff first, then if you 'eff up can get things back to pure stock (drag racing term).

Testing is Fun but always have said back door to restore things to OEM standards.

tommyoz

06-25-2009, 11:49 PM

06-26-2009, 12:00 AM

Thanks tommyoz. :)

I think I've got my game plan and info pretty well dialed. I've never heard of the 30/30/30 procedure and am going to review the router modes as NYSE suggested, but I think I'm pretty much ready to run. I may wait a couple more days to see what the slingers performance is during peak times. I'm really not freezing that bad most of the time. Even on porn. So I may never take the leap, but it sure sounds like a guy could benefit in a lot of ways not related to the slinger by running DD-WRT firmware.

My basic set up is like DSL (wireless), so which mode would I most likely want to go with most likely?

Ok, I don't feel so dumb now. I knew the right way to reset a router. I just didn't know it was called the 30/30/30 procedure. ;)

rg6a

06-26-2009, 12:03 AM

JT,
I am not a pro by any means with networking. I am an A+ certified technician just never got around to studying for the networking.

I am using DD-WRT mini version on my Linksys WRT600N and running Slinger with it.
I have tried the D-Link 604 and have had the same results with it hooked up with the Slinger. I now have put the D-Link aside.

The result is I am now getting no freezing to very little freezing now that they have made changes on the server end. If you have any specific question please ask away as I don't know what exactly you want to know.

That's sort of a cryptic comment and not familiar with your LinkSys router, nor do I have a Sl*nger. Curious about the freezing and whether it's firmware related as it should be transparent as one cannot surpass the chipset and only make the best use of the capabilities.

Can you tell that I"m a hardware and firmware guy?

Please expand upon that.

PS Cable or DSL and which Modem?

tommyoz

06-26-2009, 12:27 AM

Yea, a lot of the stuff on the DD-WRT firmware is over my head. I only made the change from the stock version because I wanted to see if it made any changes using the Slinger.
Just by the looks of the menus it does look like more can be done with the router but I wouldn't know.

Sorry if I didn't explain properly but the bottom line was my setup was ok and it was on the server end of the Slnger causing freezing problems because I had the D-Link 604 and it made know difference. Even with making settings changes like some suggested and they way Mili suggested on his how to. I am up and running fine now. More details below.

Testing
Slinger w/
Dish VIP722
Bev VIP9242
Router - Linksys WRT600N
Modem - Cable SB4100 & SB5100

ruciz

06-26-2009, 01:03 AM

I personally avoid Dlink at all costs now. I had a wireless USB stick which would disconnect all the time, and their routers I have to reboot constantly (the new style, old style would just drop connection).

Even their damn gigabit 5 port network switch was a whore with the WRT54G, which was another reason I went to full gigabit. The xbox360 would NOT do Media Centre at all, looked like I was streaming through dialup.. Yet if I plug it into the router it worked fine... Guess it had something to do with the frame or frame buffers? 100Mbit device on a 1000Mbit switched bridged to a 100Mbit router just didn't work, but the PCs had no issue.

DD-WRT is just as easy as every other router firmware to setup the basic features, if you are going advanced make sure you know what you are doing - find a tutorial. one wrong mouse click and you are starting everything over.

Also verify the DD-WRT site for your router and how you have to update/upgrade it. The 310N needs a 30/30/30 reset after EVERY flash (hold reset for 30 sec, then unlug for 30 sec, then plug back in for another 30 sec- the whole time holding reset in) This clears the NVRAM fully so you don't get corrupt features when the new firmware writes it. Stability also has a lot to do with your ram and whats available, and what you are running/services enabled. People with a slinger or 2 and a wireless laptop or iPod won't notice a difference on any DD-WRT version on any hardware, but when you have all 7 gigabit ports maxed and 10 wifi devices connected, ram plays a role in the stability.

I wasn't aware the 54g V8 had a DD-WRT. Guess I will be on the search for one of those...

In the grand scheme of things, a fucking dial up modem would work with a slinger so any router ever created will suffice, ICS on a dialup account shared over wireless B would work. logging packets from any IKS you won't see much bandwidth used. If its not working, unplug your router for 10 sec and plug it back in. Likely will. if not its likely a problem outside your house....

Double^D

06-26-2009, 02:29 AM

I am useing ddwrt with a router they said wouldnt work the linksys wrt54gs or wat ever it is. I am running full blown dd-wrt and it works like a charm now that they have fixed there server. almost no freezing. I would suggest that all people run dd-wrt. its the bomb diggity.

Zolton

06-26-2009, 06:59 PM

I’ve used DD-Wrt firmware in my Wrt54gs for several years. It enables the routers to be used in several modes, Access Points, Client Bridge, Repeater Bridge and several others. Their site has extensive tutorials making for an idiot-proof install. Wrt54gs are all over the place and can be purchases for 20bucks or less. So you can save a few buck on bridges and game adapters and such. Many other wireless routers can be used as well. Check their web site for supported hardware. Your mileage may vary. Generally, the earlier version Wrt54gs work better because they have more capacity and can run the full-featured firmware.

If one were inclined, they could take one of these routers modify it for power over Ethernet (POE), put it inside a box with a 18dbi antenna Aka “rootenna” and mount it on the roof. This would enable you so suck in internet from faraway places, boost its signal and rain it down upon your house. Now this might or might not be illegal I’m not really sure.
Cheers.

duh1

06-26-2009, 07:29 PM

Little Kenobe

06-26-2009, 08:57 PM

dd-wrt is great firmware .. wrt54g(s) version 4.0 or less can run the full version of dd-wrt.
im using mine as a repeater from my neighbors wep encrypted router .. i used linux aircrack to get the network key then applied it to my dd-wrt.Great for cardsharing or just free internet .. it also does alot more

Zolton

06-26-2009, 09:01 PM

I would be so inclined Zolton, of course we are talking line of site here, i presume. Also power to the router on the roof would be required. All in all small change, for what on the face of it, sounds like a fun project. If you snould feel the need to expound on the subject, please feel free.

Try some google searches for "wrt54g POE" and "Wrt54G rootenna" You'll find lots of info.
As I recall, the POE mod involves removing the circuit board from the router and soldering two wires from the power in to unused points on the ehternet in and connecting a power adapter two unused wire pairs in the Ethernet cable, blue and blue white and brown and brown white as i recall. Here's a writeup but there are many more, Just do some research:

xxx.rfshop.com.au/Blogs/tabid/648/EntryID/15/Default.aspx

Zolton

06-26-2009, 09:17 PM

duh1

06-27-2009, 01:27 AM

Well, yea sure, but why hang a carrot, and don't feed the rat?