[mili]

Before, the odd and even control words were independent of one another.
This was well known because two consecutive CMD07s were required before
BOTH of these control words changed. This was necessary to ensure that
if an error occured during CMD07 decryption, there wouldn't be a
disruption in audio/video. Two consecutive CMD07s would have to be
botched by the cam before video was lost. The probability of that
happening was astronomical.


Now, BOTH convoluted control words change after each CMD07! Interesting.
So is the provider risking the possibility of subbed customers enduring
freezes and glitches everytime a CMD07 is botched by the cam?

The most probable answer is NO. This means that whatever is coming down
in CMD07 no longer represents the odd and even control words
independently, but is a function of both.

************************************************** **********
Got this from the Horse's Mouth - Sounds like a Pessimist but he is
right.
************************************************** **********

...a lot of you are in denial and that is fine. You can make all kinds
of claims like "Nagra 2 is hacked and it is just a matter of time before
FTA boxes are up and running". Or, "we have been through this before
with key changes and parity key changes" and we survived. True.

But folks, this is DIFFERENT. With every revision, they can introduce
new MAP functions and X-OR the crap out of the control data with random
data. By the time someone figures out what they are doing, a new
revision will come down. Guessing game starts all over. You see? You
see? What they are doing now is forcing us to play a guessing game which
we can't win, even if we had the patients to keep deciphering every
revision. That's the way it goes, whether you like it or not.

Expect extended down times on all testing platforms with some temporary
uptimes if and only if the providers are nice enough to give us enough
breathing room between each revision to map out the new functions that
generate the control words.

You can blame all this on the utter greed of the FTA manufacturers who
were pumping these units out like there was no tomorrow. Did you all
think you could just go to your local dollar store and buy an FTA
receiver made in China for $25 and watch Dish/Bev programming for free
indefinitely? Free TV just went too mainstream. The providers had to
take drastic measures to stop this and they did.

To some degree, limited ROM based hacks that were kept underground were
tolerated by the providers because they didn't pose much of a threat as
they were merely the domain of a few dedicated hobbyists and testers.

But things just went too far with FTA. So the providers reacted. That is
all there is to it.

[sirdanny]

Well, thanks for the heads up. When will all of this start happening?

[mili]

It is already happening on BEV.

mili

[RoofleChicken]

The one big difference now is that the greed of the FTA manufacturers will certainly be put to use in coming up with solutions. DOn't kid yourself..there's HUGE money in Asia behind these things. If anyone has the financial resources to play ball with Echostar it's them. There's no way they'll let their cash cow go down without a big fight.

[ruciz]

Originally Posted by RoofleChicken

The one big difference now is that the greed of the FTA manufacturers will certainly be put to use in coming up with solutions. DOn't kid yourself..there's HUGE money in Asia behind these things. If anyone has the financial resources to play ball with Echostar it's them. There's no way they'll let their cash cow go down without a big fight.

Well.. Unless those FTA manufacturers can embed a smart card that can get the image dumps as each rev is updated and apply them to the receiver automatically there is no hope without trying to manually figure out or guess the new setup, or get lucky and continue to glitch into the card. Still by the time this is completed they can have a new revision forced. I don't figure much will happen in the next week as they are seeing what happens with this scheme.. once they iron out the bugs expect the community to get very quiet for a while. I wouldn't expect much along the lines of public releases too much longer.

I am pretty sure their cash cow was ready for slaughtering anyway. I would still like to know if this is going to work in conjunction with dishnets firmware lockouts too..

[kelowna_pitboy]

i am new to plastic so dont crap all over me

why doesnt plastic programming work? isnt it just a clone of a working card with a blocker?

again, i am newbie with plastic so keep it simple.

kb

[mrscig]

FTA is a "FREE TO AIR" it doesn't use plastic.

Hey Mili

What does this mean for the avr-x and other non plastic applications

Thanks
P

[geb]

"You can blame all this on the utter greed of the FTA manufacturers who
were pumping these units out like there was no tomorrow. Did you all
think you could just go to your local dollar store and buy an FTA
receiver made in China for $25 and watch Dish/Bev programming for free
indefinitely? Free TV just went too mainstream. The providers had to
take drastic measures to stop this and they did.

To some degree, limited ROM based hacks that were kept underground were
tolerated by the providers because they didn't pose much of a threat as
they were merely the domain of a few dedicated hobbyists and testers.

But things just went too far with FTA. So the providers reacted. That is
all there is to it."

Well said Mili. I couldn't tend to agree with you anymore. Testing has went from learning , reading and trial/error to where is my free tv. I am not a rocket scientist testing for only 6 years but it has got to the point where almost everyone just wants there free tv. 95% probably don't own a jtag or a programmer which every newbee should have. FTA has definitly through a screw into things especially when all you got to do is get new keys and punch them in with your remote. The sign of a real tester! Well it will probably be a rough road but hopefully the guru's will maintain a keep up status with the providers.

Thanks to the fellows who keep the ball rollin

[1one]

I would almost bet that 07 call to map is just a hand shake. If it is then can a bug table be hooked in there? If someone thinks I'm wrong feel free te set me straight.

[A-Team]

The sky is falling hic-up!!!!

[1one]

I see you guys thinking. Someone jump in and show me some sound reasoning.

[mili]

As I said I am just pasting the emails I received I by no means understand what is going on. At this point I'd say cloning of a real sub will work, a magic card type device in married sub will work with some receiver mods. Other than that I don't know. Understand that it is still too early to know for sure. I am certain that FTAs are toast though.

mili

What are your thoughts on the avr-x still working mili

[skinerd]

Originally Posted by 1one

I see you guys thinking. Someone jump in and show me some sound reasoning.

Reasoning is that all sat providers are under pressure to secure their signal, and they will attempt to do so, eventually succeding. That's the way it is....

FTA seems to be the most visible target, ever look on ebay?? thousands of FTAs for sale, they will try to put them down, and follow with other venues before during or after.

[mili]

I don't know about the AVR-X. It is simply too early to tell. I know about the FTA though. I suggest trying to sell it while you can.

mili

[1one]

So are you trying to say that current ecm will accomplish that? Does the current map fuctions still not use these params? :
General ECM uses 2 operational 16 byte keys (keys 00 and 01) and one constant issuer key of 6 byte length (key 02).
Superencrypted ECM needs additional 3 keys to decrypt:
two 16-byte operational keys (10 and 11 in hexadecimal notation)
and one 64-byte (0x40) RSA modulus (key 12 in hexadecimal notation).

[hacker]

Are my rom 102 cards ok? i am using the v23 blocker with the detroit locals script.

[1one]

Skinerd,
I dont own a fta but they should still be using emulation to work. Correct?

[1one]

Skinerd left. Am i correct mili?

[mili]

You can ask me coding questions and will get the same results as you would from a disinterested cat. I know the guy who emailed this to me reads this thread, if he wishes he will reply.

mili

[1one]

Well fta's are really not my thing anyway. Its not like I'm gonna buy one to test. There just seems to be a lot of folks that own them and might need some help. Thought I might download a bin of one and get some use out of my new vip acess.

[Crazy1_79]

1one where is the intercept installed on the 102 rom10x writer? and what is the actual code that is put on the card? I have a idea. Is it at 8210 and 8220?

[1one]

Havent really looked. I assume that it may be cam specific. Open cam and look for A0 FF?

[Crazy1_79]

no where the cam

[1one]

then must be in codespace.

[hacker]

will rom 102 cards be toast soon?

[1one]

Hacker,
I think thats what everyone wants to know. Its a guessing game. Its only t.v. though.

[hacker]

ok, but i have the v23 blocker, so won't that block the ecm? Sorry i am kind of a newbie when it comes to an ecm, haven't had one since the nagra 1 stream thx

[1one]

It will block them from writing to your card. What it will not do is to allow newer rev to get thru. They then are jumping off and saying without new rev on cams no tv.